once at all the -- at ogilvy, i had a group formed to oust me. think, tavis, what we all do when we are up against an emotional conundrum like that, you think, what is this doing at work? it feels so personal. and then you learn to put it on the shelf and extrapolate out of it what matters about it, and what i chose to do in my experience, i did not think it through which to i went back to the person who was my in former, and i said, "do not tell me who they are. i cannot afford to be diverted." and so, if you ask most men, they would say, "i would hammer them peer " i think it is ok, because the one thing i was putting my and -- my energy towards, the company vision, that was primary, and i also did the arithmetic. if we did the mission, i was fine, and if we did not, i was cooked anyway, and then i took on an evil kabbalah after that, as i call it. -- i took on the evil after that. tavis: the difference between women trying to work their way around men versus women trying to work their way around women. the difference is what? >> here is the th