so i see ogis as a sheepdog. in a sense, that congress is driving the herd and has said we want to go here. and ogis is the sheepdog that has to go and catch the straggler and bring it back to the crowd. the stubborn sheep that doesn't want to move, ogis has to convince it to move and the idea is to bring everybody along and keep us moving and pick up the pace to go in the direction that congress has said we need to go. so at a macro level i think that's very important. at an individual level, it is -- i don't think this is too strong a word, infuriating to not know what is going on with your foia request. you know that it's an odds game no matter what in terms of whether are you'll actually get the information that you want, but you shouldn't have to wait and wonder even whether your request is going to get an answer. so ogis i think does an excellent job and i can say that i am a satisfied customer in this regard. ogis does an excellent job of facilitating a conversation between the requesters and the agencies,

that is kirsten mitchell who is an ogis facilitator. kirsten is one of those stalwart ogis staff members who works day in and day out to make our work as broad and accessible as possible dealing with requesters and with agencies every day. to resolve disputes and also to help -- particularly agency professionals figure out better ways to disclose smart. so i'm going to stop there. i know we're going to have some q&a at the end of this, but i'd like to turn it over to kirsten, then we'll ask marianne to speak and then gavin we'll turn to you as the third. >> good morning. so mariam talked about the culture change that we would like to see happen in the foia and i think as she said that is the future of foia. so i'm going to talk about what we mean by a culture change certainly sue pointed to several things and miriam mentioned a couple. but we've got four specific things that ogis has come out with for improving the administration of foia. these aren't things that would require amending foia or changing foia, but just things to improve t

have -- first of all, before i get into my question when we're 3:00ing out titles that display what ogis does, ogis put a blog out about a month ago that i think perfectly exhibits what they can do for requesters, and the title of the blog was five words "how to invite a foia lawsuit." and this was basically in effect their mission statement as far as their helping requesters. they were telling agencies, if you want to be sued, do these things. these are the things that most annoy requester into tiling suit. i advised everybody to read that. that being said in a slightly related vein in response to what you were saying about how to measure it, i have a question. how to measure your success. i would view that success is not measured by getting agencies or requesters to do something that they were already doing. but to get them to change their position. that's where the mediation would come in. mediation doesn't accomplish anything if both parties proceed to do exactly what they were doing anyway. and so i would ask you how often do you see that a requester has come to you asking for help

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