relations, director of the kyiv-mohyla school of political analysis academician and historian oleksandr alfiorov , good gentlemen, happy holiday, good night, probably already. so today we are talking not so much about the holiday, but about the very concept of independence, although we will also talk about the holiday, and the first question will be a bit provocative . that on august 24, 1991, our independence seemed to just fall on our heads from the sky like i don’t know a suitcase with money and we somehow took advantage of this chance, do you agree with this opinion, gentlemen, absolutely as a historian let me say that i i do not agree is a thesis because the concept of independence is an accompanying concept of the state, the concept of the state is also the concept of statehood , the duration of state processes, the creation of different times in different institutions of state governments, in general, name changes, including ukraine, the ukrainian people's republic, the ukrainian state, the zaporozhian army, the hetmanship or rus the medieval ukrainian state, we are talking about durabili