oliver wendell holmes jr. was a lieutenant in the battle of antietam and was wounded and was still on the supreme court in 1932. his extraordinary career and his letters and speeches are -- a compilation of them was put together by judge richard posner a couple of years ago called "the essential holmes," a wonderful book sort of expressing the humor and intelligence of a great american and great thinker. c-span: you also quote vaclav havel and max weber, socialists from germany, and you said friedrich hayek from austria and tocqueville. now, i've got to ask you about tocqueville. every book i've picked up on this show almost in the last, i don't know how many months, has quotes from tocqueville. >> guest: well, he's a smart guy. c-span: when were you first introduced to him? >> guest: i never read "democracy in america" from cover to cover closely until i got interested in this subject, and there is much in there and it's a joy to read. c-span: was he a liberal or a conservative? >> guest: i don't know. i thin

this is 20 years before oliver wendell holmes will make that in thinking about free speech i think it's the other issues during this period the american state is really growing. these issues are quite connected. so, in the supreme court decision which upheld the power of the state to vaccinate people the court knotted at the end of his decision which essentially compares the right to order vaccinations and repel an invasion, the military invasion, the court nodded to the individual liberty of not be so easily invaded. the court said that vaccination measures must be reasonable. they must not be arbitrary and repressive, and as an example but court went on just talking in dicta, talking to the judges once they've already made their ruling he essentially about the case of someone who could prove to court of law and because of their medical background and history and medical condition that seems opposed to a special harm to them, special danger to them. in such case the supreme court said of course it would be a violation of that person's liberty to vaccinate them to order them to be vacci

. >> oliver wendell holmes, sr. holmesas a poet and essayist. a very small man physically, five foot four in a pair of heavy boots. he was a poet, published pt and he was a medical student. he saw no incongruity deving his life to medical sign and writing poetries and writing essays and finding the monthly atlanta magazines. he was one that caught on to french and the whole way of life ther immiate. keep in mind charlie, they did not speak any frch, none of these people. french wasn't taught yet. modern european languages weren't taught in colleges. >> charlie: they had to learn the language when they arrived. >> yes. imagine you're plunged into medical school with thousan of students going to lectures, attending demonstrations of surgical processes and the like. and everything's in french. none of the other students speak english, and you've got to catch up. with a rigorous schedule that would be enough to exhaust anyone and not one of them to my knowledge ever quit. none of them said boy this is what i expected, i'm going hom >> charlie: olive

this is 20 years before oliver wendell holmes would make that stand in thinking about free speech. i think free speech and other issues of civil liberties during the period of the american status is really growing. these issues are quite connected. so, in the supreme court decision, which upheld the power of the state to vaccinate peop people, the court nodded at the end of its decision which essentially compared the right to order vaccination, to the right to compel an invasion, a military invasion. the court nodded to individually to ought not to be so easily invaded. the court said the vaccination measures must be reasonable. they must not be arbitrary. and as an example, the court went on to talk as judges do once they've already made the ruling, about the case of someone who could prove to a court of law that because of their medical background and medical history, their medical condition, vaccines pose a special harm, special dangers. that in such a case the supreme court said, of course it would be a violation of that person's liberty to vaccinate them, to order them to be v

oliver wendell holmes was asked by his law clerk, he said this is unjust. holmes said young man, we're not in the justice business. we're in the law business. that distinction is important. our legal system is based on a combination of factors -- preserving the privacy of defendant, he has his rights given to him, no junk science. we keep out evidence that might be relevant but it's too prejudicial. we're not on a scientific quest for truth. we're not trying to do justice for caylee or any particular person. we're trying to have a verdict consistent with constitutional rights. the system as a whole should be just, but it will in a given case produce innocent verdicts for guilty people. that's just the way it turns out. and that's the way it should turn out if we believe better ten guilty go free than one innocent be wrongly confined. one thing about tv in the courtroom, what does -- i agree with you, piers -- it makes trials look like reality shows. they would never end a television show with this kind of uncertainty, with all these questions unresolved. it

hence, what oliver wendell holmes said, if m m fellow citizens want to go to hell, i'll help them. because that's my job. he said they exist to majorities, that's wrong. >> that's great on paper when is where it's written. when it makes the transition from parchment to pavement. there's the rub. when i'm talking about the document being living and vital i'm talking about the interpretation of it. i'm talking about the meaning of it. i'm talking about the symbolic power, the purchase of notions of freedom, justice, equality and dem democracy, they must travel into our common humanity. i'm suggesting that that docucument is critical to the reinterpretation of people of color, and women. we were rejected into the mainstream of america. we're not for r me vibrant reinterprptation of that document and appealing to its living legacy. none of us could be here. i wouldn't be here talking to you, not as an equal, at least. >> one of the misnomers in our society, a lot of people confuse it with h the declaration. declaration is the music. the constitution is lobredo. what we cherish is in th

oliver wendell holmes, sr, then a young medical student and so many others experienced paris in the 19th century. we considered going to paris for the interview, but settled instead for meeting at the lovely bistrot du coin in washington d.c., where i started by asking mccullough why he was drawn to this particular time and place. >> here was this big period between 1830 and 1900 about which very little had been done, filled with wonderful characters, important characters in a variety of fields, who were changed by paris and consequently when they came home or what they brought home, changed america, changed our story. >> brown: in the first chapter you write: "not all pioneers went west." it's a kind of theme for this book. >> yes, it is. >> brown: in what way were these people pioneers? and what were they seeking? >> well, we talk about pioneers in science or pioneers in medicine and some of them were literally pioneers in medicine because they went there to study. paris was the medical capital of the world. our medical training was woefully behind and this was a chance to perfect thei

. >> and i guess, oliver wendell holmes at one time said we have a court of laws, not a court of justiceby the letter of the law. you know what i know in my heart of hearts? >> what do you know? >> it airnt over yet and ultimately there is justice done in one way or another. remember everyone was upset about the o.j. case. one day justice will find him, if you think he was guilty of that and most people i talk to do. and he's in a prison now in las vegas, i believe. >> so who knows? i just -- all right. it will be interesting to see what the judge does tomorrow. >> all right, hoda woman. >> we have another topic we're talking about that drives a lot of us crazy, when you can't remember when where you put your keys and where you parked your car. >> i myself, have been mid-sentence talking even to you and forgot what i was saying. >> they call thai senior moment and you're not quite there. >> i can't and i wonder what is that? we'll talk to an expert about whether it's something you should really be worried about or whether it's info overload. >> or what they call it, the maturing brain. >