omb re al omb re. he just finished a film called latie on youth. he is a father and his 2 children are here. daniel and elma and his daughter in law and megan m burns and suggested we contact him. we are so happy to have you here and look forward to hearing your address. >> good morning ladies and gentlemen. you know i got to share this with you. i know how to drive a tractor. don't forget what you come from. culture cures. it's like coming back to our mom. i want to first and formost jeff adachi, thank you for the opportunity. patty lee. and sury to all the students. can i see the hands of the high school students? you know what i like about that? mihose means my children. look where you are sitting. in the front. i did a presentation for 2 thousand students and they were 25 hundred chairs. where do you think they sat? it breaks my heart. they sat in the back. i had all the ushers remove the first 5 hundred chairs and we started getting closer. how does it feel to be in the front? if you see yourself at second best, how do you think people are goi

we will be talking to omb. before i turn to our first panel, i notice senator glenn vall has joined us. i want to get him an opportunity to get his testimony before the committee. >> thank you very much. i particularly want to thank you for your leadership in this area. i have introduced a bill called the "honoring all veterans act." and the "chiropractic care for all veterans act," which follows the leadership that you have requited and other colleagues in the senate that had started and carried forward this effort to keep pace with the men and women who serve and sacrifice for our freedom. the va has taken some strong steps towards building a 21st century support system, but gaps in the system remain. they are devastating for many of our veterans. we must do better and we must do more. the legislation i have produced provides a package of 16 provisions aimed at better health care, jobs, educational opportunities, and streamlining and modernizing the va. i will submit for the record my full testimony. i very m

i'm delighted to see that a former omb director can make something of himself. you have done a great job as director. i know you've had the opportunity today to answer tough questions, but the tone has been appreciative and respectful. i am most concerned, as you know, on the budget front, particularly with regard to our major programs and the cost of growth, the time delays have been troubling to me on this committee. over the last four or five months, we've heard a lot of testimony. this is at the same time, of course, we are talking about not just restraini spending, but putting everything on the table to deal with our historic deficits, the debt overhang that is affecting our economy so directly and affecting our future. i also think, for natural -- for national security to our men and women need the best equipment and a need it in a timely matter. the cost overruns annually are over $0 billion per year. this is compared to a decade ago when it was average $40 billion per year. the average delay is almost two years of delivering initial capabilities for thes

i'm delighted to see that a former omb director can make something of himself. you have done a great job as director. i know you've had the opportunity today to answer tough questions, but the tone has been appreciative and respectful. i am most concerned, as you know, on the budget front, particularly with regard to our major programs and the cost of growth, the time delays have been troubling to me on this committee. over the last four or five months, we've heard a lot of testimony. this is at the same time, of course, we are talking about not just restraining spending, but putting everything on the table to deal with our historic deficits, the debt overhang that is affecting our economy so directly and affecting our future. i also think, for natural -- for national security to our men and women need the best equipment and a need it in a timely matter. the cost overruns annually are over $300 billion per year. this is compared to a decade ago when it was average $40 billion per year. the average delay is almost two years of delivering initial capabilities for

the nss also to a great extent, the omb, will not engage in these. they do not feel it's within their statutory mandate. omb at most will lay down predicates, audit standards, fiscal standards, but they -- neither of those agencies feel that it is within their mandate to charter an executive office of the president agency to engage in these kind of operational matters, and therefore we have to simply defer to nss or omb on that. >> thank you, sir. >> commissioner irvin, please. >> thank you very much. mr. ambassador, mr. secretary, thank you very much for being here. always a pleasure to see you. i did not intend to start with the two or three questions i'm starting with, but it seems to me there's a few issues left hanging from various exchanges you had with my colleagues, and they will probably follow-up too. on this last exchange about this very disturbing new yorker article, you said that, if i understand you correctly, that the medical staff looked into allegations that the office of inspector general, and i think you mentioned another officer t

you were president's clinton chief of staff and director of the omb before that. he played a role in the budgets and oversaw a 4% decline in fiscal year 1994. some have called that a fiscal holiday. others said we were catching a peace dividend. -- cashing a peace dividend. i want to give you an opportunity to explain your role in those cuts and whether you think they were deeper than they should have been. give us the benefit of your perspective. i hope we do not try to cash a peace dividend in 2012 as we are engaged in two and half wars. >> as the director of omb, i was given the responsibility of the president to try to achieve significant savings as part of the economic plan that was adopted by the congres we reduced the deficit by almost $500 billion. i think that plus other agreements that were made in the bush administration and with the republican congress all contributeto our ability to achieve a balanced budget. with regard to the defense area, my responsibility as omb director was to provide a number to the defense secretary and allow the defense secret

omb, at most, will lay down predicates, audit standards, fiscal standards. but they, neither of those agencies feel it is within their mandate to charter an executive office of the president agency to engage in these kind of operational matters and, therefore, we have to simply defer to nss or omb on that. >> thank you, sir. >> commissioner earvin, please. >> thank you very much. mr. ambassador, mr. secretary, thank you very much for being here. always a pleasure to see you. i did not intend to start with the two or three questions i'm going to start with, but it seems to me there were a few issues that have been left hanging by various exchanges that you've had with my colleagues, and they probably will follow up themselves in their round, but it occurs to me that i have the opportunity to do it, so i will. on this last exchange with dr. zakheim about this very disturbing "new yorker" article, you said, if i understood you correctly, that the medical staff has looked into some of these allegations that the office of inspector general has done. i think you m

nss, also to a great extent omb will not engage in these. they did not feel it is in their statutory mandate. olwen be at most will lay down predicates him -- omb will add mostly down predicates, of its standards or fiscal standards, but not feel it is their mandate to charter executive office of president agency to engage in these kind of operational matters and therefore we have to simply defer to nss or omb on that. >> thank you, sir. commissioner ervin, please. >> mr. ambassador, mr. secretary. thank you so much for being here. always a pleasure to see you. i did not intend to start with the two of the questions -- but it seems there were a few issues left hanging in from various exchanges from my colleague and it probably will follow up themselves and their rounds but i have the vicinity. in the last exchange with a doctor zakheim about the very disturbing article, you said, if i understood you correctly, that the medical staff has looked into some of the allegations that the office of inspector general has done. i think he mentioned an

the nsc and the omb will not engage in these. they do not feel it is within their statutory mandate. omg will lay down -- omb will lay down physical standards, but neither of those agencies feel it is within their mandate to charter the executive offices of an agency to engage in these operational matters. we have to simply defer to nss or omb on that. >> thank you, sir. >> commissioner ervin, please. >> mr. secretary, thank you for being here. it is always a pleasure to see you. i did not intend to start with the question of i am going to start with, but it seems there were a few issues left hanging by the exchanges you have had with my colleagues. they probably will all of themselves with their realms. on this last exchange about this very disturbing "new yorker" article, you said that the medical staff is listening to some of these allegations that have been done. you mentioned another office or two within the state department has done this. were any of these allegations substantiated by the inspector general of the medical st

omb is the most likely capstone that would provide some oversight to that. in the case of brac, you had the secretary of defense, who depended on the services in the defense agencies to make recommendations. then there was a certain normalization that took place at the osd level before that was, in turn, submitted to the commission. i think there needs to be a step like that that is included in the civilian side. omb could possibly play that role, so that you have the same opportunity to look across the agencies that the recommendations that are being made, because there may be some opportunities to do some colocation, comminations that cross agencies that would be worthwhile for the garment to consider -- combinations across agencies, that would be worthwhile for the government to consider. >> d.o.d. started this process wanting to get rid of the property. they want to get rid of bases. congress has stopped them. the motivation is slightly different in starting this. i do not think a lot of agencies will necessarily put forward higher-volume pieces of prope

omb is the most likely capstone which provides some oversight to that. in the case of bracc, the secretary of defense who defended the armed service defense agencies make recommendations and there's a certain normalization that took place at the os the level before that was a term submitted to the commission. there needs to be a step like that included in the civilian side, and the omb could play that role. so you have the same opportunity to look across the agencies and recommendations being made. there could be some locations and combinations across agencies that would be worthwhile for the government to consider given our current budget situation. >> same question. >> the point of that was made is the dod started this process wanting to get rid of property. they wanted to get rid of bases along the way but congress stopped them. the motivation is slightly different because i don't think a lot of agencies look for their surplus but are they going to put forward hire a valued people and properties that could be consolidated or taken out of the federal p

i'm delighted to see that a former omb director can make something of himself. you have done a great job as director. i know you've had the opportunity today to answer tough questions, but the tone has been appreciative and respectful. i am most concerned, as you know, on the budget front, particularly with regard to our major programs and the cost of growth, the time delays have been troubling to me on this committee. over the last four or five months, we've heard a lot of testimony. this is at the same time, of course, we are talking about not just restraining spending, but putting everything on the table to deal with our historic deficits, the debt overhang that is affecting our economy so directly and affecting our future. i also think, for natural -- for national security to our men and women need the best equipment and a need it in a timely matter. the cost overruns annually are over $300 billion per year. this is compared to a decade ago when it was average $40 billion per year. the average delay is almost two years of delivering initial capabilitiesor th

she's a former director of omb. chance had a couple of sense of brookings. she was co-chair of the task force on debt reduction. and also on president obama is that commission. in 2008 she was named one of the greatest public servants of the past 25 years, but there is a single line that represents her greatest accomplishment. it simply says she was the founding director of the congressional budget office, which she served up from 1975 to 1983. enner. right is ruby pointe previously he was a managing director of the parents group, which is a p&g company. the is been affiliated with the american enterprise institute and held many positions at government, omb, hut, and council of economic advisers. he was the second director of omb. robert reischauer is president of the urban institute. he was the vice chair. he is also one of two public trustees of this also security and medicare trust fund. he has also worked at brookings and what alice when she set up cbo in 1975 and also served of the agency's assistant director and deputy director. froms cbo's third direc

omb director orszag.parture comes as the administration attempts to explain away the struggle economy that only seems to be getting worse. according to cbs news, 45% of unemployed americans are 6.2 million people have been jobless for more than six months. what does our president have to say about that? >> the president: there are always going to be bumps on the road to recovery. we're going to pass through some rough terrain. >> sean: joining me with reaction former tennessee center, fred thompson. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> sean: we love having you back. any comments about anthony weiner? >> another fine mess you got to get to the bottom to sean. the quality of scandals going down in country. you remember watergate. what did the president know and when did he know and when? now it is what did the congressman show and when did he show it? down you think the quality of scandals has gone down in this country? >> sean: i really do. i knew i wanted to invite you just for that reason. here's u.s.

i'm delighted to see that a former omb director can make something of himself. you have done a great job as director. i know you've had the opportunity today to answer tough questions, but the tone has been appreciative and respectful. i am most concerned, as you know, on the budget front, particularly with regard to our major programs and the cost of growth, the time delays have been troubling to me on this committee. over the last four or five months, we've heard a lot of testimony. this is at the same time, of course, we are talking about not just restraining spending, but putting everything on the table to deal with our historic deficits, the debt overhang that is affecting our economy so directly and affecting our future. i also think, for natural -- for national security to our men and women need the best equipment and a need it in a timely matter. the cost overruns annually are over $300 billion per year. this is compared to a decade ago when it was average $40 billion per year. the average delay is almost two years of delivering initial capabilities for

i know the literature to which you're pointing, and existing omb documents don't require that, but it is certainly worthying about. >> so right now you're not taking into account impacts on children or families when they lose a job as a result of legislation? >> well, to taking the of job impacts, which as i say is a central focus of ours, is to consider job impacts on families and children. the word job impacts in ordinary language especially in the current economic environment, not even before the word job impacts naturally calls up adverse effects on families and children. >> are you aware of rules at the department of transportation relating to new signing requirements costing counties tens of thousands of dollars if not more each? >> yes. i'm aware they are concerned about that and pulled back on the rules? >> so they have pulled back on the rules? >> absolutely. he's personally been engaged. >> the rule is stopped? >> well, the rule that was causing the public concern was pulled back, and there's reassessment, and you can be sure that the most vocal and con vinszing concerns abo

when we had the health care debate, when you had the omb talk about the savings we would have when itealth care reform, republicans use the exact reform plan against democrats. we can sit here, talk about what's credible or not. it boils down to what will impassioned voters, what will get them so fired up, we vote based upon anger, not really based upon what is right or just. if you tick off the opposition, you fire them up, you're in trouble. the paul ryan budget plan does that for the democratic base. and the concerned independent voters who are also on the fence on his budget, that's the real issue. >> we're going to have to end it there. i know everyone wants to get their voters out during this campaign. vin, roland, chrystia, thanks for being with us. >>> up next, one man's garbage is another man's treasure. in this case, it could provide new material in an investigation linking a banking giant to the financial crisis. coldwell banker. we never stop moving. but when she got asthma, all i could do was worry ! specialists, lots of doctors, lots of advice... and my hands were full.

>> you look at the omb and what they have to say and the gao.the end of the day, we sit here and say, tax cuts -- i'm a high-income earner. i would love to sit here and keep saying oh, cut, cut, cut. but the problem is we want to sit here and say, cut but also spend, but also if you cut taxes, don't cut the oil subsidies. as will talked about, don't cut the deductions. look at what's happening in europe right now. the people there are freaking out because of the austerity plans because they have lived that way for so many years. and when you have so much debt, you're going to have to stop something. same thing in this country. we don't want to let go of anything. at some point, we have to have a balancing act. you can't keep saying, cut, cut, cut, that's going to solve all our problems. it's not. >> we need to distinguish two things. there's the current economic problem and the debt atrib utili attributable to that. it can have a positive effect on our economic system that's in the tank right now. you only have a few options. i would ask ken thi

cat some steam who runs the group at omb who refuse all of these, we looked at the cost benefits and analyze that heavily. there's some rules that can't be looked at the cost model was only the benefit side by legislation but our attempt to get control over this and to try to make sure each of these rules being proposed half there's cost-benefit analysis that is rigorous and i appreciate your time. yes, sir. >> the [inaudible] established in 1902 and while we were producing now we are [inaudible] one of the issues right now is the agreement and the president said he announce to double exports in the next few years but with all these trade barriers we can't do that and there's a lot of finger-pointing going on. as a businessman we need somebody that is going to get the job done. competitors as devotion to agreement all round the world in emerging markets and in south america and if they are being left in the dust and we are beginning to see that as well almost as we are intentionally presenting ourselves from getting at the case. in your opinion or as you see will the fingerpointing s

second thing is as you know the omb circular 123 requires each agency to chief acquisition officer to review and evaluate its acquisition function so i will ask you first have you done the devaluation and secondly, if so, is it possible could you submit that for the record as well? >> that is an internal document. let me check with our lawyers because of the unique nature of the executive and legislative branch and the commission i think i've given you everything you asked for up-to-date. i just have to check on that type of internal document. >> in the act that you monitor your activity that might be another way to get that. the dot has already set up as my understanding for transition in afghanistan from of a dod to the state department. has the state department set up with the contracting and particularly in mind? >> yes, we have come in and we are actually dispatching as our chief administrative officer or chief management officer in kabul is an officer who has been involved in the same office working on the transition to a systemic my understanding is that had not been done yet,

we will be talking to omb. i want an opportunity on the bill he has before returned to her panel. [inaudible] >> thank you for having me and i particularly want to thank you, senator murray and i've introduce a bill, s. one years exterior color be honoring all veterans that and s. 1147, the chiropractic care available for all veterans act, which very much followed the provided other colleagues in the senate who started and carry forward this effort with the men and women who served and sacrificed. they've taken strong steps towards the goal of building a 21st century support vista, but the gaps in the system remain in our debilitating indebtedness dating for many of our veterans would be better and we must do more. the legislation i introduced provide a package of 16 provisions aimed at your health care,, jobs, educational opportunities in streamlining and modernizing the va. and i will submit for the record medical testimony my experience as i know other members of the panelists we need to have a comprehensive approach to deal with the signature wins of the afghanistan and iraq c

she's a former director of omb, vice chair of the federal reserve board, co-chair of the task force on debt reduction, and also on president obama's debt commission. in 2008, she was named one of the greatest public servants of the last 25 years, but there's a single line in her bio that represents her greatest accomplish wants. she's the founding director of the congressional budget office that she served at from 1975 to 1983. to her right is rudolph penner, an institute fellow at the urban institute holding the chair and public policy. he was a managing director of the barrens group, a pmg company, been affiliated with the american enterprise institute and held positions at omb, hud, and home of add providers. he was on the cbo from 1983-87. next to him is the vice chair and also one of two trustees the social security and medicare trust fund and also worked at brookings with alice rivlin in 1975 and served at the assistant director and deputy directer and third director from 1989 to 1995 during which time i worked for him. you may be expecting me to tell you that douglas holtz-eakin

cast some steam who runs the group within omb to reduce all of these, we looked at the cost-benefit ofthem. we analyze that very heavily. and with a great priority on. that some rules, the cost of them only the benefit side by legislation. but as far as our attempt to try to get control of this, and try to make sure that each of these rules that are being proposed as a cost-benefit analysis done, that's really rigorous, we are doing that. but i appreciate your comment. yes, sir. >> thank you very much. my name is albert. i'm from madison, wisconsin. we were producing coast guard ships. now we are pretty common of construction all around the world. what issues were having right now -- [inaudible] the president said many months ago that he wanted to see, or he wanted to double exports in the next two years. and we are all for that. but with all these trade barriers, we can't do that. and there's a lot of finger-pointing come and really as a businessman, we go beyond the point to get somebody that will get the job done. but while the finger-pointing is going on, we have competitors that a

former director of omb, couple of stints at brookings, vice chair of the federal reserve, co-chair of the task force on debt reduction, and also on president obama debt commission. in 2008, she was named one the greatest public servants of the last 25 years. this is a single line in her boy for my money represents her greatest accomplishment. it simply says ms. rivlin was the founding director of the congressional budget office which she served at from 1975 to 1983. to alice's right is rudy penner, institute fellow at the urban institute and holds the r.j. francis urban chair in public policy. previously he was a managing director of the berens group, and also affiliated with enterprise group and held many positions at government, omb, hud, and council of economic advisors. he was the second director. robert d. reischauer, to rudy's right, is president of the urban institute. he was a member of the medicare payment advisory commission from 2000-2009 and was it's vice chair. and he is also one of two public trustees of the social security and medicare trust fund. he's also worked at br

omb and agreed but has yet to implement it. however, the administration recently proposed a somewhat responsive to that recommendation. separate proposed an independent board that would streamline the disposal process by deflecting properties consider appropriate for public benefit uses. this process could reduce disposal time and cause. it would also establish an asset space management fund that could be used to reimburse agencies for a necessary disposal costs. the proposed independent board will address stakeholder influences by recommending federal properties for disposal or consolidation after receiving recommendations from civilian landholding agencies and independently reviewing those recommendations. while tranninety is not explicitly to voters leasing, it could help to consolidate operations where appropriate. mr. chairman, this concludes my statement. mike koldyke will describe the brac process. following his testimony will be happy to answer the committee's questions. >> mr. lepore? >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. ch

with omb on friday to look at that. so that's one thing on the training site. >> can ask about tha that in? if you establish if that were the case, is that something that you all could work out a would you need our help in fixing that? or is that and administrating? >> no, i think that would be worked out with the administration just to say okay, the question is are we providing services to different audiences. so it's one more focus. and i -- i visit to west virginia website, i just don't have all the information right now. >> okay. very good. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thanks, senator boozman. i want to ask a question about, mr. o'connor as well as mr. lord. one of the primary benefits of rail travel is the ability to move easily, efficiently, get on the train, get moving to your destination. how is it going to be as efficient, as rapid, or us to be able to balance the needs, the security needs, with a mode detailed review of whose boarding the trains? mr. lord, -- or mr. o'connor, let me ask you first because you've

when you were looking at it from the treasury point of view from the omb or cbo those are the most difficult times to predict on a daily or a monthly basis. i don't think that it's gotten any easier than from when i was doing it the past couple of years in fact i think it's gotten hard. so for anybody to say we are going to hit the debt limit on a specific date let august 2nd without knowing what we are going to get to mauro i think it's just not feasible, just can't make that estimate. the second report and date is and again august 2nd, i think it's the date when congress adjourns and i think it is a couple of days after august 2nd right now. it's not on august 2nd. the reason being as was mentioned before, with the congress adjourned without passing a debt limit particularly if things like going on right now to get even better and closer. there's one other aspect i want to make. let's say everything works out beyond the expectations of a variety else in this table and we actually come to an agreement, and that agreement would involve not only entitlement cuts, but enforcement revenue and o

so i guess i am wondering, how does omb calculate its estimates for total regulatory cost?a year and then over a ten-year period we can multiply the number of rules issued by the cost that we generate and then you could have a ten-year aggregate costs as a result. the study to which you refer with the 1.75, extraordinary 1.75 figure is deeply flawed as a report by the congressional research service this april suggests it has become a bit of an urban legend. the particular number. we share definitely the concern. one implication of that analysis is the united states would be richer if it adopted regulations more like those of sweden or canada, even though both the world bank and the oecd rate those countries have had a more restrictive environments. >> crews have not? >> the cream city with a 1.75 trillion should say i respect those. >> they said we should have regulations for sweden in this country is? >> that is the urban -- it is an implication of their analysis that we would be doing better if we had regulations. >> the administration does not agree with that. >> one of

omb should cut spending across the board including entitlements and defense programs if congress cannot stay under the 18% threshold. [applause] now, back in 2006, then-senator barack obama said that raising the debt ceiling was "a sign of leadership failure." when the house of representatives voted no to raise the debt limit to over $16 trillion, the national debt was nearly 75% higher than when president obama said those very words as a u.s. senator. president obama is not lead when it comes -- has not led when it comes to are out of control debt and out of control spending. the irresponsible policies that the obama administration has instituted over the last 2.5 years have hastened our descent toward bankruptcy. and put the physical well-being of future generations of americans in jeopardy. the madness must stop and real fiscal reforms must be allowed to take place. america must make painful cuts necessary or we will become a second-rate power. we will become reminiscent of the european model obama so cherishes. ladies and gentlemen, members of the conservative movement and tea party

i would suggest to you that leon panetta, who has served honorably and successfully in congress, at omb, at the white house, and of the ca, is prepared and uniquely qualified to be another outstanding secretary of defense in this very challenging time. i think the committee. -- i thank the committee. >> senator boxer. >> i appreciate every word my colleagues about my friend, leon panetta. i will try to add more of a personal side because i've known this man and work with them since 1982. he became one of my mentors. eventually, i served on the budget committee or he was the chairman, and i watched him very carefully reach out across every kind of line that would divide us. republican, democratic liberal, conservative, moderate. we were facing a lot of new, complex issues. one was the eighth crisis -- one was the aids crisis. i remember saying there was a new disease and we have not done anything about it. he said, what do you hold some hearings and bring in the republicans, and we did. we were able to get the first funding for aids research. was ready to listen. he gets it. we have seen

i am meeting with the director of omb on the fiscal year 2012 budget. wish me luck. as chairman, -- i appreciate the opportunity to discuss the request for 2012. as noted, my last budget testimony before this or any other congressional committee ever at this time, i mean it. the budget requested for the bertran of defense being presented includes a budget request of $553 billion and in overseas contingency operations at -- request of $27.80 billion. my statement includes more details i would like to take this opportunity to address several issues i know have been the subject of debate and concern in recent weeks and months. first, the plant's future reductions in the size of the ground forces, secondly proposed reforms and savings to the tricare program for working age retirees and the budget strategy choice is requiring them to meet the savings targets laid out by president obama. nearly 4.5 years ago, one of my first acts as defense secretary was to increase the permanent strength of our ground forces. the army by 65,000 for a total of 547,000 and the marine corps

there's a proposal before omb. how important is it that that proposal advance?t question. i think americans deserve to have a safe food supply? we have been fortunate, i think, on balance of having a relatively safe food supply, but until we do not have a single incident of contamination, a single incident of people getting sick, or unfortunately and tragically dying, we still have work to do. that's why i think it is important for us to take a look at ways to continue to focus on a prevention effort. that means for us as we learn more about e. coli, as we learn more about strands that cause problems, we ought to be willing to step forward and begin the process of testing to be sure we can prevent illnesses and diseases rather than responding to them. i think what's happened in europe is a wakeup call. it requires us to be continually vigilant about food safety. it's an every day responsibility, and if you relax for a moment, it can cause devastating consequences. our hope is that we work with the industry which is just as interested as usda is, the government i

why bipartisan policy centers debt reduction tax force chaired by former senator domenici and former omb director alice rivlin recommended eliminating the exemption and it would be appropriate for the senate to hold hearings on the credit union tax exemption. what is the cost of the tax subsidy? the most comprehensive and sophisticated was done by the nonpartisan tax foundation which values the subsidy at $3 billion a year and $32 billion over a 10 year budget window. the credit union loan i mentioned earlier that was underprice by 400 basis points was surely made possible by this tax subsidy and perhaps also the failure to adequately evaluate the risk. the case for repealing the credit union tax exemption stands on its own. when credit unions seek to expand their business lending powers and become the equivalent of banks, linking expanded lending powers to the repeal of the tax exemption is a matter of tax equity. thank you again for convening this important hearing chairman johnson. as if many banker i feel a direct impact credit union commercial lending so i'm grateful for the opportu

. $23 for every dollar we spend and that doesn't count -- that's conservative accounting that omb and pbo has come up with. that doesn't count the deterrent effect of people seeing it and never doing it to begin with. this is a kind of microcosm of why, you know, we always argue this agency is a little different, collecting the money for the government because it has a huge return on investment and a real obligation to serve every taxpayer in a way that's dignified and respects their own individual situation. >> but the problem, mr. shulman, is that people compare you with other agencies in terms of american express -- and they say well, this person went to purchase something with his american express card and they called me, you know. but the point is that they can do that because they have the staff, and they have the system in place that they pay for to be able to raise these kind of flags so that's the point i want to make and, you know, because you're going to be compared with them, you know, and, in fact, some of our colleagues have already done that today. and i was on the nor

omb found in 2008 annual benefits range from 1,503,000,000,000 tax 806 billion. >> yes. >> can you please tell us how regulation could benefit americans and save money? >> there are various ways. i refer to them know cub rule. that can save money. a lot of concern about rising gasoline price. if you have more fuel efficient fleets consumers can save money. clarifying savings. a rule that promotes fuel economy can save consumers a lot of money. if you have all of the saves lives, that saves money in the sense that healthier packed living people are good for the economy and the value people health and longevity. in those three different ways we can have significant benefits from regulation. >> it seems to me, i don't want to be implying that more regulation would save more money or fewer regulation would cost or save more money. in truth here have to look at it on a continuum sometimes it's not cost-effective and they should be fixed or repealed, but sometimes that protect public health and can save money. you have to work and regulation by regulation which is what the administration is try

. $23 for every dollar we spend and that doesn't count -- that's conservative accounting that omb and pbo has come up with. that doesn't count the deterrent effect of people seeing it and never doing it to begin with. this is a kind of microsm of why, you know, we always argue this agency is a little different, collecting the money for the government because it has a huge return on investment and a real obligation to serve every taxpayer in a way that's dignified and respects their own individual situation. >> but the problem, mr. shulman, is that people compare you with other agencies in terms of american express -- and they say well, this person went to purchase something with his american express card and they called me, you know. but the point is that they can do that because they have the staff, and they have the system in place that they pay for to be able to raise these kind of flags so that's the point i want to make and, you know, because you're going to be compared with them, you know, and, in fact, some of our colleagues have already done that today. and i was on the nor of

. $23 for every dollar we spend and that doesn't count -- that's conservative accounting that omb and pbo has come up with. that doesn't count the deterrent effect of people seeing it and never doing it to begin with. this is a kind of microcosm of why, you know, we always argue this agency is a little different, collecting the money for the government because it has a huge return on investment and a real obligation to serve every taxpayer in a way that's dignified and respects their own individual situation. >> but the problem, mr. shulman, is that people compare you with other agencies in terms of american express -- and they say well, this person went to purchase something with his american express card and they called me, you know. but the point is that they can do that because they have the staff, and they have the system in place that they pay for to be able to raise these kind of flags so that's the point i want to make and, you know, because you're going to be compared with them, you know, and, in fact, some of our colleagues have already done that today. and i was on the nor

when you were looking at it from the treasury point of view from the omb or cbo those are the most difficult times to predict on a daily or a monthly basis. i don't think that it's gotten any easier than from when i was doing it the past couple of years in fact i think it's gotten hard. so for anybody to say we are going to hit the debt limit on a specific date let august 2nd without knowing what we are going to get to mauro i think it's just not feasible, just can't make that estimate. the second report and date is and again august 2nd, i think it's the date when congress adjourns and i think it is a couple of days after august 2nd right now. it's not on august 2nd. the reason being as was mentioned before, with the congress adjourned without passing a debt limit particularly if things like going on right now to get even better and closer. there's one other aspect i want to make. let's say everything works out beyond the expectations of a variety else in this table and we actually come to an agreement, and that agreement would involve not only entitlement cuts, but enforcement revenue and o

omb found in 2008 annual benefits range from 1,503,000,000,000 tax 806 billion. >> yes. >> can you please us how regulation could benefit americans and save money? >> there are various ways. i refer to them know cub rule. that can save money. a lot of concern about rising gasoline price. if you have more fuel efficient fleets consumers can save money. clarifying savings. a rule that promotes fuel economy can save consumers a lot of money. if you have all of the saves lives, that saves money in the sense that healthier packed living people are good for the economy and the value people health and longevity. in those three different ways we can have significant benefits from regulation. >> it seems to me, i don't want to be implying that more regulation would save moreon or fewer regulation would cost or save more money. in truth here have to look at it on a continuum sometimes it's not cost-effective and they should be fixed or repealed, but sometimes that protect public health and can save money. you have to work and regulation by regulatio which is what the administration is trying to do.

omb found in 2008 annual benefits range from 1,503,000,000,000 tax 806 billion. >> yes. >> can you please tell us how regulation could benefit americans and save money? >> there are various ways. i refer to them know cub rule. that can save money. a lot of concern about rising gasoline price. if you have more fuel efficient fleets consumers can save money. clarifying savings. a rule that promotes fuel economy can save consumers a lot of money. if you have all of the saves lives, that saves money in the sense that healthier packed living people are good for the economy and the value people health and longevity. in those three different ways we can have significant benefits from regulation. >> it seems to me, i don't want to be implying that more regulation would save more money or fewer regulation would cost or save more money. in truth here have to look at it on a continuum sometimes it's not cost-effective and they should be fixed or repealed, but sometimes that protect public health and can save money. you have to work and regulation by regulation which is what the administration is try

. $23 for every dollar we spend and that doesn't count -- that's conservative accounting that omb and pbo has come up with. that doesn't count the deterrent effect of people seeing it and never doing it to begin with. this is a kind of microcosm of why, you know, we always argue this agency is a little different, collecting the money for the government because it has a huge return on investment and a real obligation to serve every taxpayer in a way that's dignified and respects their own individual situation. >> but the problem, mr. shulman, is that people compare you with other agencies in terms of american express -- and they say well, this person went to purchase something with his american express card and they called me, you know. but the point is that they can do that because they have the staff, and they have the system in place that they pay for to be able to raise these kind of flags so that's the point i want to make and, you know, because you're going to be compared with them, you know, and, in fact, some of our colleagues have already done that today. and i was on the nor

omb found in 2008 annual benefits range from 1,503,000,000,000 tax 806 billion. >> yes. >> can you pleaselation could benefit americans and save money? >> there are various ways. i refer to them know cub rule. that can save money. a lot of concern about rising gasoline price. if you have more fuel efficient fleets consumers can save money. clarifying savings. a rule that promotes fuel economy can save consumers a lot of money. if you have all of the saves lives, that saves money in the sense that healthier packed living people are good for the economy and the value people health and longevity. in those three different ways we can have signifi

and you bring a wealth of knowledge with -- from that perspective from your years at omb as well as whereou are today. so i -- again, we look forward to dialoging with you between you and this committee on that issue as well as our other acquisition issues that are going to be before you. let me ask you one other matter relative to libya. i noticed that you agree that the gadhafi regime must go. how are we going to do it? based on what we're doing from our participation in the nato operation? how are we going to make that happen? >> well, that is as the president has said the objective. and it has to be done by a number of means. number 1, we are bringing strong economic sanctions against them. number 2, we're bringing a strong diplomatic pressure against them. we have implemented embargoes and more importantly, the work that nato is doing pursuant to the u.n. resolution and the nato forces that are there are bringing tremendous pressure, i believe, on them. not only fighting, obviously, to protect civilians but to put -- to implement the no-fly zone. but to, in addition to that, target t