you know, if he left the omb job, he would have to be reconfirmed by the senate to go back to omb, or the white house would have to get somebody else nominated and try to go through that process to replace him at omb at a time when you have a trillion plus dollar deficits in the middle of a bunch of budget wars. this is a really embarrassing episode for the white house. normally a white house chief of staff would be exiting and there would be somebody pretty much lined up. normally you would not have a public rejection of the president by three candidates in a row. we had obviously chris christie today. you had nick ayers earlier. and mark meadows also took himself out of the running. so as catherine pointed out, the president wanted to end this spectacle as quickly as possible. she also pointed out mick mulvaney having relationships on the hill is one of the reasons he's attracted to the president. what the president may not know is that mick mull veiny's relationships on the hill are bad, by and large. he does not have relationships with democrats on the hill. most of the moderate m

i remember talking to him the day after the election and he told me he wanted to be omb director.laughed because he was this sideline hardliner. never saw him go into the omb but there was a deficit and people wanting to enter the trump administration because they knew it was risky. he worked with paul ryan, sort of a nemesis of his own. they didn't get along very well and had different policy views, to get that promotion. from there he has been at omb and sees the steps and sees it as a way to climb the ladder. >> can he impose discipline on structure that has been chaotic to the point -- i'm going to read to you, josh, trump grew frustrated that nobody of high stature wanted to be his chief of staff, according to a senior official. so he decide d suddenly on fridy afternoon to tap mulvaney. he was never formally interviewed for chief of staff. he met trump for a scheduled discussion of the budget showdown but left as acting chief of staff. >> people kept saying, no, i don't want this job. white house officials told us friday morning, it's likely to be chris christie. within two

omb title leaves you vulnerable to testifying before congress. another problem is being acting chief of staff. you cannot be effective if you're walking around with an expiration date on your forehead. the moment people think you do not have the authority and do not speak for the president over the long term then you're a dead man walking. that's just the beginning of the problems that mick mulvaney is about to confront. >> can you go back to one of the points you mentioned, the idea mick mulvaney could get hauled in front of congress. explain why that is significant. >> the white house chief of staff does not want to be in the position to testify about conversations with the president. as omb director confirmed by the senate, there is no -- he has no way out. he has to do it. having both titles is a non-starter. i think being acting chief of staff is a real problem too because you just don't have any authority. the moment you're no longer speaking to the president, people can smell it. they can sniff it. you're nothing but an overblown scheduler

>> why is he resigning from omb?ave confidence -- >> he's auditioning mulvaney but not sure about it. >> or maybe mulvaney wants to be temporary and he's not sure about it. >> this would solve the problem. we have two weeks of vacation. he's going to mar-a-lago. who is going to run the country? he doesn't have a chief of staff any more. >> i don't know that it matters much. the chief of staff sets up processes and structures and the president is resistant to that. he doesn't abide by it. he's his own chief of staff, communications director all rolled into one. >> who makes the decision s? john, you're the most political guy here. who makes decisions? how does he know when to go to wisconsin next? how dz he know when to go to europe, the next g20 or not? who makes the big decisions on his schedule, who is he going to butter up -- who does the calls? >> you have to understand this is not the white house we're used to. when he doesn't fit into the role, oh, my gosh, something is wrong with trump. trump is the ceo. peopl

bush administration and assistant director at the omb. when they were given this order by hr haldeman they threatened to re-sign and take the story to the press. before they do so they meet with their former boss with a identified as someone who's an independent figure within the white house, someone who could support them in their resistan resistance. they meet with george shultz and according to the two of them who at least talk about the disorder, they said he told them don't worry, i will take care of it. aside from caspar weinberger, no one is on the record in terms of participating in the project. watergate becomes a story in the spring of 1973 and the order fades away. there is one tape where next in awkwardly jokes about it in front of shultz during a cabinet meeting. he lets it go and you never see it again in the record. nearly 20 years later after a transcript of one of the white house tapes leaked out to the press i think it was published in the post people find out the nixon wanted this to happen. he said you get a hold of we

after abruptly announcing that white house budget director and omb chief mick mulvaney will take on a temporary third job as acting white house chief of staff just yesterday. today, the president, again, abruptly announced the departure of white house interior secretary ryan zinke. secretary of the interior ryan zinke will be leaving the administration at the end of the year, after having served for a period of almost two years. ryan has accomplished much during his tenure and i want to thank him for his service to our nation. the trump administration will be announcing the new secretary of the interior next week. by his own admission, zinke's departure is a result of looming violations of ethical violations in the trump cabinet. zinke said in part, after 30 years of public service, i cannot justify spending thousands of dollars defending myself and my family against false allegations. zinke's resignation comes weeks after house democrats set to gain control of the house committee on natural resources. in charge of oversight of the interior. not an ideal situation for a cabinet secret

russ vout will hand day-to-day operations and running omb. at the time that you're facing potential government shutdown, pull the budget guy, move him to the chief of staff, for as long as he can stay because he's acting. and is there any ethical concern about having both roles? >> it's a disaster. completely chaos, this administration. and the government with a trillion-dollar budget and potential government shutdown and you don't have anybody in charge over at omb. you're using somebody temporary at omb at the office of management and budget, because you want to put the director of omb over the chief of staff's position because nobody else wants it because nobody wants to work for this president. it's complete chaos in this white house. and putting that on top of all these investigations, something's got to get fixed quickly. or we could be in serious trouble. the markets are getting nervous. the trade war is heating up. now they're talking about shutting down the government. why? because the president doesn't get some stupid wall that he w

sit true mulvaney's not going resign from omb? can you do both jobs at once?but yes, he can be acting chief of staff and remain entitled the omb director. this is an indication of just how bad the chief of staff job is, that mick mulvaney is keeping his title, a senate confirmed job so, he has something to go back to in case this doesn't work out. if he left the omb job he had have to be reconfirmed or the white house would have to have somebody else nominated and go through the process to replace him at a time when you have trillion dollar plus deficits in the middle of a bunch of budget wars. normally a chief of staff would be exiting and there would be somebody pretty much lined up. normally you wouldn't have a public rejection by three candidates in a row. you had chris christie today, nick ayers earlier and mark meadowles also took himself outf the running. as katherine pointed out, the president wanted to end the spectacle as quickly as possible. also she pointed out, mick mulvaney having relationships on the hill is one of the reasons he's attractive to

omb directors have been great chiefs of staff. leon panetta was a chief of staff who came for bill clinton. jack lew was chief of staff for president obama and then went to the treasury department and josh bolton succeeded he and he was a fantastic chief of staff. so i think he comes with the right credentials. he's very intelligent and he's smart. he gets both of it. he also was very respected on capitol hill. he knows what it means to govern. he was elected to congress and was a co-founding member of the freedom caucus. he's close with mark meadows. i think that he's a good choice for this president to be chief of staff and i hope that he decides to stay in that position. he'll come to recognize that it's a wonderful position to have but i think he is well suited to do it and i'm glad he's offered to do it on an acting basis. mark meadows and chris christie turned down the job. you hope he stays in the role but surely that's not a great starting position. >> because he works in the white house complex right now, their offices ar

at the same time he is omb director. he has a lot on his plate. i guess he is kind of like the jared kushner. you know, he just keeps on putting these tasks on certain people. maybe because trump does trust him, despite the comments he has made in the past. snoot president wouldn't go for that. why the change of heart now? >> when you are left with a few options, they wanted the story to be over. sfwoo see, we can find good people. i think that's how bad it was and the story of no one wanting to work in the white house wasn't going away. >> we know that in part some of our reporting is that the president needed somebody who was maybe more politically savvy, and mulvaney provides that, doesn't he, keith? >> he is more politically savvy than john kelly is, but before that you remember rooins priebus, he was politically savvy. that didn't work out well for trump either. the problem is president trump. you can't fix the staff if you don't fix the person running the staff. the it's the president, donald trump. >> let's talk about ryan zinke for a minut

we're looking at this in global terms as omb and the operational departments and agencies prepare their fy 2020 budget request. congress has to appropriate the money so that could change the direction and levels and some way respects as well. we don't know -- i can't -- i literally cannot answer the question until we get to the end of the budget process. that's nothing new, by the way. that is true every year and what makes the budget process so much fun. what's your goal? is your goal to actually lead to reductions? when you go into these meetings, what's the minedset? mr. bolton: the budget guidance that the president directed that omb send out across the board with the exception of defense looks overall like a budget cut for the entire government budget. he wants to reduce the deficit and obviously reduce the national debt. how that works out in department by department and then program by program we just can't say at this point. >> from "the new yorker." i was looking at the western sahara and i just -- i was interested in what you hoped to see there? do you want to see the moroccan

we're looking at this in global terms as omb and the operational departments and agencies prepare their fy 2020 budget request. congress has to appropriate the money so that could change the direction and levels and some way respects as well. we don't know -- i can't -- i literally cannot answer the question until we get to the end of the budget process. that's nothing new, by the way. that is true every year and what makes the budget process so much fun. what's your goal? is your goal to actually lead to reductions? when you go into these meetings, what's the minedset? mr. bolton: the budget guidance that the president directed that omb send out across the board with the exception of defense looks overall like a budget cut for the entire government budget. he wants to reduce the deficit and obviously reduce the national debt. how that works out in department by department and then program by program we just can't say at this point. >> from "the new yorker." i was looking at the western sahara and i just -- i was interested in what you hoped to see there? do you want to see the moroccan

he's a loyal trump soldier now, and served as omb director, and he's got the right resume but i agreeith what kelsey said to you a minute ago, the fact that you have to take him on an interim basis shows how much people don't want this job. >> kelsey, when you hear -- to david's point -- that people don't want this job and the president saying many people want the job, which is true? are people lining up to be the chief of staff in the white house at this time? >> not as far as we have seen. there are people that enjoyed having their names out there or were not discouraging the conversation about their candidacy, but we have not seen a lot of people coming forward. it would be a difficult job. we have seen that through a number of people who have gone through it already. >> very difficult because we have the democrats taking over the house, and also the possible end of the mueller investigation, so this is a white house under fire. >> yeah, this is a time when things are going to get a little stickier. >> david, how could mulvaney help trump navigate the mueller investigation, and we

for many months -- for many months i have said -- well, when i was a reagan cub scout and omb years and years ago and mrs. reagan coined the phrase just say no to drugs and so people asked me recently what should china do and i would say, tongue and cheek, but some seriousness, china oughta say yes to something. because they never have, in the eight or nine months that i've been involved in this negotiation. now they're not saying -- i can't sit here and say they're going to say yes to all of these things, it just struck me that president xi said yes to a couple of important things and that is the first time i've heard any senior official, much less the president, say yes. that is why i'm raising this anecdote. >> right. we know they could be -- that leaders in china could be charming and gracious in meetings but you're asking them to do in 90 days what has not been accomplished over the last two decades of asking. and the chinese have played rope-a-dope. and they delay in hope that the administration will come and go and then continue to subsidize on enterprise and do demand to get int

the honorable mick mulvaney is the current director of the office of management and budget, omb, a key position in the trump administration. prior to his time as the director of omb, he served the people of the fifth district of south carolina as the congressman where he was first elected in 2010. director mulvaney has been a friend and advocate for middle eastern christians for years. meeting with the mennonite patriarch in 2014, meeting the syria orthodox patriarch in 2015, and working with them to pass the resolution to recognize the genocide in libya and syria. [applause] >> mick and his wife pam are the proud parents of triplets, james, caroline and finnegan, and two great danes guinness and harper. ladies and gentlemen, please give a warm welcome to mr. mick mulvaney. [applause] >> thank you very much. people always ask me about the dogs named guinness and harper and ask me what i do for fun. i want to thank mr. hage for the introduction. i want to thank you for inviting me. thank you to all the religious leaders and excellence iy that are here. thank you for inviting me and givi

>> i don't think he ever imagined he would be omb director. i know this was up for discussion, these comments he made. because the president, as you well know, monitors all media. he discussed this with mulvaney when he interviewed. >> you heard that from people in government? >> yes, people during the transition. the issue with mick is he can go to congress and testify. it's going to be a strange hearing when he has to answer questions on the exert and sabu exert executive privilege. >> so the donald trump that you work to says he cares about loyalty. do you buy this explanation the reason he's given up on those he didn't like a few days of tough coverage? >> i think that was part of it. i think the fact that, look, they settled on nick ayers, who had been under discussion earlier -- as late as heading into the election, maybe august or so. they had a press release drafted wednesday. >> that's all the palace intrigue. let me come right to the strike zone with you. when you see this person that you worked for to become president, that was your

opm, but on the banner it might have said omb. if we want to get it right.ere oldest world war ii vet richard overton has died at 102 years old. the army that was hospitalized with pneumonia but was released on christmas eve. sadly he passed on christmas ev christmas eve. in an interview on fox news in 2014, he talked about his longevity. >> everyone asked me, why do you live so long? and i said, ask god, don't ask me. and i said if i had left it to humans to keep me living, i would have been dead a long time ago. >> he talked about god even into his hundreds. he would drive widows to church and also said that whiskey and several cigars a day kept him young. we will miss him and thank them for service to our nation. and now, with the other stories would you should know about -- 2018 has been a worse year than last for a nation's police officers. federal and state officers were killed in line of duty, up 12% from the previous year. second, the boston marathon bomber's lawyer is asking the judge to toss the case. jurors were asked to serve despite lying during

>> i'll put my donald trump omb hat back on. donald trump doesn't let anybody sit around doing nothing. zach's a good man. we'll find something for him to do productive. >> mick mulvaney, thank you for joining us. >> thanks, jon. >> coming up we'll be talking to democratic senator and potentially presidential candidate for 2020, jeff merkley next. later the power house round table. we'll be right back. >> announcer: "this week" with george stephanopoulos sponsored by ibm. ibm. the engine management systems coordinate with autonomous vehicles. financial data, so now we can predict the future. our new flexible propeller design. by collaborating with public schools on a program called p-tech, ibm is helping students build the skills they'll need for tomorrow. revolutionizing. aerospace industry. it's an entirely sustainable approach. any questions? when you rethink education, everyone can put smart to work. from the first loving touch pampers diapers are the #1 choice of hospitals, and have been for over 40 years pampers swaddlers

will he have that smile when he's eventually done as chief of a staff and who replaces him at omb?: or the other organization bureau of financial affairs, go ahead, danielle. >> yeah, i'm curious to see what i would have loved to have seen elizabeth warren's reaction to this appointment. but i don't want to be a debbie downer for a minute, but we have to recall a big survey came out yesterday that showed 48.6 chief financial officers in this country believe we're going into recession in 2019. what better person to have as your right hand man than mick mulvaney, he has a deep understanding, experience prior to going into government, he had experience in business and real estate, you want somebody who has a great foundation, understands the economy, understands how businesses work, if the u.s. economy is truly heading into a slowdown. >> so i'll say something else kind about him. he also has experience in electoral politics actually more than the president and that's a good thing in this role but we need to keep in mind the president has chewed up and spit out anyone in this job befo

lou: omb is not the simplest of departments. ed: with a new budget coming forward.. but he knows what the president needs. there is no disruptive force. the president can focus on the chaos going on around him. lou: mulvaney has served this president quietly and effectively. he's a bright, hard work conservative. ed: and knows the congress which is going to be in the house particularly it will be the democrats. he can give the president good guidance. lou: we are going to -- i want to get in one more question. and that is on what gregg and cleta and i were talking about, this persecution of the president. the obvious. listen to if we may, the former fired fbi director still fired, former fbi director talk about his remarks about how he sent agents over to the white house to interview general flynn. get your thoughts on it. >> i sent them. something i am probably wouldn't have done or maybe gone the away with in a more organized investigation -- organized administration. in the george w. bush administration or the obama administration, for example. ed: that's j edgar

with the omb budget hawk coming on board. but we are all budget hawks. including secretary mnuchin. and any more questions for larry kudlow? . >> there is a list of those items presented to the chinese so if they agree to the ip protection what else is important and high probability? . >> by the way i assume he meant --dash that disaster but that monitoring and enforcement trust but verify in the chinese are not fabulous on that we have a history so i just want to make that point but those various aspects of technology are so important that we are talking about commodities. i asked the uk and with his prior views in order to achieve increased purchasing. and i was delighted to hear that. it's a good thing but that is important so a quick plug on that they open their markets to us in the industrial area in fact, president xi talks about energy. i believe he will have an astronomical increase for the simple reason our economy is most competitive in the world right now. if you give us a chance that will benefit the economy and the manufacturers to benefit the chinese people. . >> that

i'm an omb alum, so i have to say it that way. [laughter] he also has had tours at both cbo and cms, and he has a long, long history in thinking through a lot of these issues. he will be follow by peter hollomann who's the chief medical officer at brown medicine. he's the medical director of an aco there since 2017. he maintains a geriatric primary care practice and, importantly for our discussion today, he serves on the ama's specialty society resource-based update committee, another great program name. and finally, the last panelist is matt eyles, he's the ceo of americas health insurance plans. he briefly served as coo and director of policy and regulatory oversight for ahip. he's had a long career and various roles in fortune 200 countries including coventry and wyeth. he began his career at cbo, so he's got a long history in these issues as well. so let's get to our panelists. bob. at aei, the correct thing to say is that administered pricing is inherently flawed, and spending time fishing the fee schedule is a fool's errand.

the president's decision or mick mulvaney saying i would hold on to my senate confirmed position at ombbrad: i think the president is hedging his bets. mulvaney may be the perfect person to remain a chief of staff, but he plays an important role. i was just there on friday for a report on the economy and mulvaney knows the economy inside and out. he is a trusting advisor who has done a tremendous job. it is hard to do both jobs, but i think the president may come to the understanding that he is the guy to be not only the acting chief of staff, but the chief of staff. david: as you say, mick mulvaney knows politics at the federal level and the state level. he will have a challenging job because there does not seem to be a lot of room for maneuver between democrats and republican. we will play what was said yesterday by chuck schumer and scott miller. >> president trump should understand there are not the votes for the wall in the house or the senate. he is not going to get the wall in any form. >> we will do whatever is necessary to build the border wall to stop this ongoing crisis of il

. >> you sent out your own tweets noting that because mick mulvaney is not giving up his job at omb,be called before congress to testify which is something that most chiefs of staff don't face. >> this double-hatted quality of mulvaney now does make him -- i thought that was a very interesting point. it does make him vulnerable to subpoenas which most white house staff would not be. they can't resist that in the case of mulvaney. maybe they can divide the issues and say he can talk about omb issues but not white house issues, but it does create another layer of complication. >> david, as john berman has taught me, it's never too early to talk about 2020. >> honestly there's all this posturing and positioning to talk about before our eyes. they're all running right now in ways that we're barely perceiving. >> the latest cnn/des moines register poll. joe biden, bernie sanders, beto o'rourke, elizabeth warren, kamala harris and corey booker. obama was third in a crowded field then. your thoughts as you see that list? >> yes. b beto o'rourke is a phenomenon now. he inspired people around

the white house feels as though he did a good job with omb.lso served in congress, as we just talked about. they think he could be effective at helping the president navigate what are undoubtedly going to be some tough fights with capitol hill, particularly democrats expected to launch a number of investigations. he comes in at a very turbulent moment, i should say, and it worth noting when he went to meet with the president last week, he went in for a meeting and came out with his offer of acting chief of staff. we're told it was mulvaney who wanted at that title of acting. >> now we turn to ryan zinke. this season just, oh, -- isn't e just planned to do this job for a short period. he's got 15 ethics violations since he went into the job. >> he's mired in investigations. he tweeted saying i cannot justify sending thousands of dollars defending myself and my family against false accusations. among those accusations, improper spending on private charter flights, as well as a questionable development deal with an oil executive. so he is now on

mike murphy, omb director is one of the most important jobs in any administration.t's not just the budget. it's rule making, it's all kinds of rules and regulations and decisions, consequential decisions for every agency in the government. >> it's one of the, it's not as famous but one of the more powerful positions in the american government and it is a whole load. i mean, i think nick is acting chief of staff because he's acting like he wants to be there. it's clear you need a bulldozer to push anybody in the job which in itself tells the story about the management culture in the white house and the legal problems for exploding for the president and his political jeopardy. so, you know, it's easier to recruit somebody to volunteer for the kandahar bomb squad than the most powerful appointed job in government. that is a management crisis on its own level. even the president has to be seeing some tea leaves here, that he's not somebody that nib wants to work for. >> he tweeted everyone want this had job and in 2016 when running for congress in a debate, we have seen

schultz the head of omb says no. so he moves to the treasury department and nixon may 72 after he just concluded yelling at kissinger to invite university presidents into the white house he calls hr holderman in a conversation you get a hold of caspar weinberger who will replace schultz i want those funds and i want them now. get it done. he said that and unlike his previous rants, weinberger moves forward. it provides detailed reports in the summer and fall and early 73 on how this could be done starting with hew grants and then cut the funds to m.i.t.. nixon was defense department funds cut they have roughly $100 million he wants to use them as a test case you have $100 million per year than after that trial see if there is a backlash than they would target other universities like harvard or yale university of california. stanford is on the list. one by one they try to redistribute the funds why is it not carried out? in early 73 as weinberger is working on the order goes through three omb directors paul o'neill sh

and, you know, you have also got the problem of he wants to be omb director and chief of staff at the same time. anybody who was omb director and then became chief of staff, you know, like jack lew would be the first to tell him, josh bolton, and others, you can't do that. you can't do both jobs at once and being acting chief of staff is also a recipe for failure because you're walking around with an expiration date on your forehead and people will not take you seriously. you know, there are many other things we could talk about but another huge problem is that this president is headed into a world of trouble, a series of investigations that will make al hague's final days look like a walk in the park. >> you want a chief of staff without an expiration date with authority and mick mulvaney doesn't meet the standards on those fronts? >> there was no plan "b." plan "a" was nick ayers. they threw into the chair somebody who gets along with donald trump. his principle qualification is that he played golf with trump and that trump can stand to have him in the same room. so -- >> interestin

i want to ask this -- he is still going to be the director of the omb. there clarity as to whether he's being paid for both positions? >> we don't know yet. the takeover of the day-to-day operations. yeah, that's how we see it. >> all right. daniel, appreciate it so much. thank you. >> thanks. >>> we've got more on the breaking news this morning. a federal judge strikes down the affordable care act. and millions of americans unclear on the future of their health care coverage. what makes this simple salad the best simple salad ever? great tasting, heart-healthy california walnuts. so simple, so good. get the recipes at walnuts.org. over the last 24 hours, you finished preparing him for college. in 24 hours, you'll send him off thinking you've done everything for his well being. but meningitis b progresses quickly and can be fatal, sometimes within 24 hours. while meningitis b is uncommon, about 1 in 10 infected will die. like millions of others, your teen may not be vaccinated against meningitis b. meningitis b strikes quickly. be quick to talk to your t

is why democrats need to get behind this in was so much controversy when he was first named director omb because as congressman he said it was a joke. but he continued obama's 100 investigations. he actually fined wells fargo $500 for what they did that was beyond the pale with consumer loans. trish: i like hearing this from you, robin. now you have a democrat guy, robin was a democrat strategist last time i checked. you said we have to give him a chance. you say he's likeable, amy? does mat buy him any likability in terms of the democrats in congress? >> i would hope so. it seems like it would be somebody easier to work with. he wouldn't have to be reintroduced to the west wing. the players know how to work with him. i see this as a big win. this is a positive. trish: what happens nextally speaking if you have a -- economically speaking if we have a shutdown. >> it's only just now starting to trickle out with the partial shutdown. so many of the functions of government have already been funded. you are talking about potentially, this waits boils down to. homeland security and department

>> and boris, on mick mulvaney taking over as acting chief of staff, while he stays the head of the omb, are we supposed to read into this, that this is just a temporary hire or do we think he is actually going to stay in the job more permanently? >> well, it is a good question. two noteworthy points here. first, months ago, as long as we've been reporting, the rumors about john kelly's departure, sources had indicated to cnn that mulvaney was interested in the position. it appears he had a change of heart. because this week, he told several people close to him, according to sources, that he wanted to remain as the head of the omb, or move somewhere else within the administration, but that he wasn't interested in the chief of staff job. secondly, if you recall, part of the reason that the vice president's chief of staff, mick ayers didn't take the role is because he didn't want to stay on for two years, which is what president trump was urging him to do. he wanted to be a temporary, within that role. ultimately, it appears that the president had to settle for a temporary chief of staff

mulvaney will devote all of his time while technically, it's my understanding, retaining the his omble. do you know anything about that? how will this work, especially giving the looming partial government shutdown? >> yeah, it's tricky. i mean, it's -- this is something that is not something that you see very often where you hold on to two really high profile, really big jobs in the administration. this could be mick mulvaney's way of kind of preserving an offramp for himself if the chief of staff gig doesn't work out very well. it is also, i mean, i think it's worth mentioning there's a natural sort of, there's a natural connection there between being chief of staff and being omb director because you work with all of the cabinet agencies, you work with the heads of those cabinets about their budgets. arthel: right. but maintaining both positions? >> is going to be a tricky job, a very tricky job. arthel: meanwhile, of course, as you know, jeff, the white house chief of staff does not require senate confirmation. however, considering that confirmation processes for any new cabinet m

this year when democrats were blamed for the shutdown, mick mulvaney head of omb he worked over timeamericans didn't feel any pain from this thing. no roping off national parks. making sure people didn't feel the pain from it. as a result democrats feel like they lost the fight. mick mulvaney in a great position yet again to manage how this shutdown will take place, whether or not people will fee the pain from it at all. melissa: do you think that was part of the calculus, putting him in there even temporarily, right? he was also really great at the time of delivering the message to people, as he stood at the podium we'll awe remember during the shut down. this is what is not happening. all these parks. this time, he would stand up there, these people are not working but they get paid when the government goes back to work. by the way those idiots in congress who can't get anything done being forced to stay here actually work on problems and deal with this? >> yes. you look at the guy, he is kind of bespectacled i don't know if he is quite a fighter. this guy is a bare knuckle fighter

. >> and then in one other announcement, omb director mick mulvaney will continue his job at omb, but he won't be doing it and will take over as interim chief of staff. that becomes effective january 3. mercedes schlapp said this about mick mulvaney a short time ago. listen here. >> i'm looking forward to working with mick mulvaney. he has incredible experience when it comes to understanding congress, understanding the budget process and also pushing forward a strong free market principles that as we know is something that is -- has been in the center of what president trump has done in terms of his economic policies. >> remember before becoming the bucket director, he was a member of congress from south carolina a member of the freedom caucus and has the chaps to be a chief of staff. again, shep, this is an interim appointment but it wouldn't surprise me if it's permanent. >> shepard: thanks, john. new today, the feds charges two men that worked with president trump's former national security adviser michael flynn with conspiracy and illegal lobbying for turkey. that's according to c

guest: those things are decided by omb. so every agency has its own plan of how they would shut down if there came a lapse in appropriations. each agency has that worked out in the administration is a time can dictate how things will shutdown. host: pat in pennsylvania. democrat. caller: good morning. how come theyg don't raise the taxes on rich people to balance the budget and another thing i don't think it cares if the government shut down unless you are in washington, d.c. that's athink discussion that's been going on for quite a while now. wealth inequality, raising taxes. the differences between the parties on whether or not raising taxes would bring in more revenue or lowering taxes would bring in more revenue. we do have a progressive tax system in this country. the top are paying the most in taxes and those at the bottom are not. thinkk there's people who we raise the taxes on those at the top. there could be some validity to that. it's not something you're just going to have one silver bullet is going to fix everyt

he was a member of congress, then omb had, acting consumer finance protection board head.ill get a set of steak knives before too long. laura: what ar the qualities of mick mulvaney that would endear him to taking this job? anthony: he is a loyal soldier. he has been in press conferences defending, trump and explaining administration policy. he is a green eye shape guy and organization. he could step into thisn acting capacity -- we don't know what that means that this point. but in an acting capacity to help organize links in the white house. it is a thankless job in any administration and could be a challenge in this one. but for someone who is ambitious, not a federal to take on. -- not a laura: interesting that it is announced as an acting appointment. what challenges will he face once immigrants take control of -- once democrats take control of the house in january? anthony: darren is thanick ayers said he was interested in taking it in an acting capacity by donald trump wanted someone to stick to his first term and that is what ayers turned it down. now you have some

and omb spokesperson responded by calling the remarks old news. 2016 when he was a congressman, and had yet to meet the president. congressman mulvaney continued to support then candidate trump throughout the election. and his support for president trump has never waivered while serving within the administration. he both likes and respects the president and he likes working for him. >> close quote. katty kay, this is a quote that came up after the appointment as chief of staff, and as we know the president is paranoid, believes everybody is against him and now a chief of staff who is on the record in audiotape saying quote donald trump is a terrible person. how does that work out in the ♪ >> yeah. not a good role model for his children, for his sons or his daughters. the president has had reportedly a good relationship with mick mulvaney in the past two years. mulvaney comes out of the conservative wing of the republican party. he's been a supporter in terms of policy of southeast things the president has wanted to do. but we know that president t

and at omb, in particular. [ laughter ] >> this is just like decapitation on an individual basis.it's inconceivable, especially here in this organization, that anybody would ever use that word. and that is one of the problems with the mixing is the whole problem of attribution. and if you look at the modeling thing around attribution there still 25 percent of patients that can't be attributed in any way. and most of the attribution has to do with describing habits in the frequency of visits which is an imprecise weight of adding cost to quality. so i think the notion of aligning people up with positions is not really compatible with the american psyche and some funny way. it is certainly not incompatible with free enterprise. so i think we need to go back to some kind of unit, and that is why the pricing thing, that is why the fee schedule as a certain appeal, because it does sort of fit into a market mentality. you are buying things. the problem is that the services are not well-defined because nobody has been paying attention to updating the service definitions to match the mode

reform -- he was sort of a one-man omb and funded both the louisiana perch in 1812. he was jefferson's and madison's secretary of treasury and their answer to alexeneder hamilton and it's his statue that stands at the front of the treasury building. it is my pleasure to introduce our speaker today, dr. deidre mccloskey she is a defender of free economy in the united states today. since the year 2000 dr. mcclockky has been a distinguished professor of economics and communication at the university of illinois and chicago. trained as harvard, as an economist she's written 16 books and added in seven more and published 360 articles on the economic theory, economic history, in front of use, feminisms ethics and the law. deidre mccloskey has the challenging task of teaching me -- theory while a preference of economics at the university of chicago. she was also a professor of economics in history at the university of iowa. deidre mccloskey's many books are unusually well written particularly when the comes to economics, whichasm she's written isn't always a discipline that