joining me now is the director of the anti-defamation league center on extremism, orin segal.nks for joining me. >> thanks for having me. >> this con found a lot of people. why the rise of hate groups? what causes this? it's not geography. what are the major factors, as you've isolated? >> the last five years, the surge in anti-government and white supremacist groups, it's probably because of the election of barack obama twice. the economy is faltering and people are angry. so when people are looking for scapegoats, they often find anti-government groups or groups that try to blame they issues on others. so that's why white supremacist groups, their agitation has gone up quite a bit. >> i think a lot of people are surprised to know that not only was this man involved in the ku klux klan, a lot of folks think is a vestige of yesteryear, but that he founded an organization and a lot of these supremacist groups are armed and training. >> the reality with him, is he was last involved with that paramilitary training with others 20 years ago. i mean, the last 15 years or so, he was