ornado likes to lie. if he is, and he is saying hutchinson didn't have it right, do you bring him in or let it go? >> the committee clearly wants to bring in ornado again. we know from sources that ornado has been in twice with them. there were questions about his testimony when he came in in the spring. you're right. that's the risk now if he comes in and if he -- if there was some way in which he would come and testify publicly. these have been closely choreographed affairs. the hearings. other than the hutchinson hearing, they've been making more use of recorded testimony and documents in the hearing than live witnesses. partially because that's something you control. you can't control a live witness as much. >> help me from a legal perspective. does the committee help or hurt its case if it brings in someone who might push back somewhat behind closed door is one things, but what if it's public? >> it's a strategic decision by the committee in terms of what they're trying to achieve to establish their

ornado after that say that what he said was untrue? >> neither mr. ornado or mr. engel said it was untrue. >> despite this physical altercation during the ride back to the white house, president trump still demanded to go to the capitol. here is what kayleigh mcenany, the white house press secretary at the time wrote in her personal notes and told a committee about president trump's desire to go to the capitol after returning to the white house. >> when you wrote that potus wanted to walk to the capitol, was that based solely on what the president said during his speech or anything that he or anyone else said afterwards? >> that is my recollection. i believe that when we got back to the white house, he said that he wanted to physically walk with the marchers. according to my notes, he doesn't set, he would be fine with just riding the motorcade. that is my recollection. he wanted to be part of the march in some fashion. >> okay, the beast refers to the presidential limousine? >> yes. >> president trump did not go to the capitol that day. we understand that he blam

we both know tony ornado and jeff engel.o the secret service and trying to attack these guy's characters. this is a new low. >> it is. to think that any secret service agent would want to be tied to a failure where a president got hurt is insane. it's mission over politics every time, period. dan: you and i -- i worked with jeff for a long time, but one of the big dangers of dragging the secret service into this is if the secret service protectees, democrat or republican, assume this guy is a political player and not a security agent, then that protectee will want to create distance. they are going to feel like they are being spied on. >> proximity. protection requires proximity. we need to be close enough to someone to react quickly immediately if we see a threat. >> we have seen this -- this is not the first time this has happened where political actors have tried to drag secret service agents into a political fight. you and i both know these two agents ornado and bobby engel. they have a decorated history with the secret

>> i don't know if i could say this trouble ahead for ornado. keep in, mind it wasn't unusual for donald trump to bring in an author lucks people in the white house to staff the white house, including his own former managers of his hotels and resorts and things like that. i think it is true that there are questions for tony ornato. one of the things the committee's been very artful in doing is applying strategic pressure to get people to come into talk about key people who were in the white house. and provide full enough accounts that it forces their hand to come in and speak themselves. i don't know that ornado has on the record denied any of the accounts. in the way that you might expect him if he recessive before the committee. but the committee said they're getting new information every day. more people are coming forward to tell their story. one of the things they will try to do is cobble together every moment that tony ornato was in trump's orbit, anything that he said, trying to recreate his timeline, and they would want to take that to h

ornado said that the president was, quote, irate when mr.m to the capital. mr. engle did not refute what mr. ornado said. the second witness is retired sergeant mark robinson, of the d.c. police department. he was assigned to the presidents motorcade that day. he sat in the lead vehicle with a secret service agent responsible for the motorcade, also called the tsa agent. here's how sergeant robertson remembered the exchange. >> was there any description of what was occurring in the car? >> no. only that the only description i received was that the president was upset, and that was adamant about going to the capitol and there was a heated discussion about that. >> and, when you say cheated, is that your reward, or was that the word described by the tsa agent? >> well, described by the ts meaning that the president was upset, and he was saying there was a heated argument or discussion about going to the capital. >> well, sergeant robinson was then asked if he ever witnessed another argument or heated discussion with the president contradicting

ornado told the president about weapons at the rally on the morning of january the six? >> that is what mr. are not related to me. >> here is how you characterized mr. meadows general response when people raised general concerns about what could happen on january six. >> so at the time and the days leading up to the six, there were lots of reports about how things might go bad on the six, even potential for violence. if i am hearing correctly, it seems to you and mr. meadows did not share those concerns, at least did not have those concerns? >> they did not act on those concerns would be accurate. >> according to her and atkinson, trump demanded that security checkpoints at his rally be removed, fearing it would take away from his crowd size. we know how important crowd size is to donald trump. here is what she heard back states at that rally on the ellipse. >> i was in the vicinity of a conversation where i overheard the president say something to the effect of, i don't effing care that they have weapons. they are not here to hurt me, take the effing mags away. let my p

was it the president directly to ornado, we just don't know. the good news is, agents can be called to testify. there are witnesses to every single one of these communications. the best evidence, of course, is the text messages. the quickest and easiest way to get the information is from a compilation of text messages. but with a lot of time and diligence, both the committee and the department of justice should be investigating this. it should not be just the committee. these are crimes. the department of justice has an obligation to act on this. as does the inspector general of the department of homeland security. >> clare, there is a line that is related to chief kellogg, on january six. there is a discussion of moving mike pence, and moving him from the capitol. kellogg is quoted as saying about the secret service, if they take him out of there, they'll take him to alaska, or something like that. it is a line that has much more resonance than it has in the past. why would somebody in the trump white house, in that position, believe that the

ornado had talked about intelligence reports. intel reports saying there potentially be violence on the sixth. >> you also told us about reports of violence and weapons of secret service were receiving the night of january 5, and throughout the day january 6. is that correct? >> that's correct. >> there are reports police and washington, d.c. arrested several people with firearms or ammunition's following a separate pro-trump rally the evening of january 5. are those are reports you recall hearing about? >> they are. >> of course, the world now knows the people who attacked the capitol january 6 had many different types of weapons. when a president speaks, the secret service typically requires those attending to pass through metal detectors, known as magnetometers, mags, for short. the select committee has learned that people who willingly entered the enclosed area for president trump's speech were screened, so they could attend the rally at the ellipse, they had weapons and other items that were confiscated, pepper spray, knives

ornado ever after that tell you that with mr. ornado had just said was untrue? >> neither mr. or renato or mr. engle told me ever that it was untrue. >> we're joined now as cnn congressional correspondent ryan angles with the new reporting. do we know who this witnesses and what exactly they're saying that allegedly backs up cast the hutchinson's testimony? >> we don't have a lot of specifics right now, anderson, but our reporters jamie angle and andy greer were able to learn that there was a metropolitan police department police officer, this is someone working for the washington d.c. police force, that was part of the motorcade that did speak to the january 6th select committee, and was able to corroborate at least a little bit about donald trump's position and his attitude on that day of january 6th. specifically, that he was angry and had the desire to go to the capitol on that day. this wouldn't have been an officer that would've been specifically in the presidential suv that was in dispute right now, but someone that was part of that group of vehicles that would've taken

ornado said.ired sergeant robinson, assigned to the presidents motorcade that day. he sat in the lead vehicle with a secret service agent responsible for the motorcade, also called the tsa agent. here's how sergeant robinson remembered the exchange. >> was there any description of what was occurring in the car? >> no, only that, the only description i received was that the president was upset and was adamant about going to the capitol, and there was a heated discussion about that. >> when you say heated, is that your word or is that the word that was described by the tsa agent? >> it was described by the tsa agent meeting the president was upset and he was saying there was a heated argument or discussion about going to the capital. >> how many times would you say you've been part of the motorcade with the president? >> probably over 100 times. >> and in that hundred times, have you ever witnessed another discussion of an argument or a heated discussion with the president, where the president was c

. >> liz cheney says the committee expects to hear from tony ornado, that lead secret service agent, he and another have hired private criminal defense counsel. what does that suggest to you? >> well, you know, i think if they are hiring criminal defense counsel, then they probably have a concern about their potential criminal liability. we want to hear from these witnesses. some we want to hear from again. we want to put them under oath if they weren't previously under oath so we can understand what was happening on january 5th and january 6th. and we have profound concerns about what's going on at the secret service. we are now for the first time getting documents that we had requested long, long ago. there is one issue about why they weren't provided earlier. they are also showing new things. and furthermore, we want to obtain those text messages if there is any way to retrieve. we want answers to why those were destroyed. >> all right. we will continue to watch what the committee does when you reconvene in the fall. thank you very much, congressman. and for a closer look at wh re

when anthony ornado told the pence advisor, keith kellogg, the secret service plan to evacuate pence from the capitol, where he was in a secure location, to joint base andrews, kellogg reportedly told him, quote, you can't do that, tony. leave him where he's at. he's got a job to do. i know you guys too well. you'll fly him to alaska, if you have a chance. don't do it. now, a lot of ways to interpret that. you guys are so worried about security, you will fly him as far as you can. a charitable reading. or, you guys are in on the coup attempt, and want to physically remove the man who has the power to occasion the peaceful transfer of power, and i don't trust you. we also know, pence refused to get in a car with a secret service detail, during the insurrection. >> is the secret service agents who, presumably, our reporting to trump's secret service agents, who are trying to spirit him off of the campus, and he said, i won't get in that car until we count the electoral college votes. he knew,. exactly, what this inside coup they had planned for was going to do. this was not a coup dire

investigators on the committee did not follow up with the secret service to circle back and ask angle and ornado if they wanted to amplify or expand upon their prior testimony. the select committee is taking some heat for, this because our journalist it would have been a very basic step if someone tells you a story, before you present the story publicly you check with everybody who you, no follow-up, you figure out if it can be cooperated or not. the fact that select committee skipped that step as they were hurrying, is something that is creating a more fraught environment for hutchinson than she would have had to face if they had gone through that step, if they had known why all the participants were aware of, and if they had been ready to deal with it rather than watch the storytelling happen publicly in realtime after she had already gone under oath publicly. >> we are so grateful for the attention you paid a new reporting about, this because this is a detailed story. but the woodruff swan, a national correspondent for politico and msnbc contributor. thank you for being with us this morning.

i like this guy ornado, i want him down the hall from me. i want him in this role. have to preserve the apolitical nature of your agency or you have to walk away. and that did not happen. the secret service director is retiring. he's announced that. we know that 30 years of commendable service. and the column, i ended by saying, look, they've had scandals before. there is prostitution in columbia in cartagena, during an official trip with obama, multiple agents were caught up in that. this culture has to stop. how do you do that? you need to reach outside the agency, give a director that has not come up through the ranks, so that strategic change can be implemented. >> it's fascinating. you bring up a great point. the secret service had, for a long time, scurried around the idea of being as political as other agencies, had to grapple with that, i.e., the fbi, as you talked about. now it seems like they have fallen prey to that as well. you always have this perception, the secret service protected the president no matter who it was. >> tony ornato himself was involve

their top lawyers have been negotiating with the committee about how tony ornado bobby engle ahead of the presidents detail a witness to what happened in the suburban that day. when there was an alleged assault on a secret service agent. and the limo driver that was willing to drive the suburban. they are negotiating with the committee staff about what's the terms for having them come in and answer questions about that alleged altercation. the alleged lunge for the steering wheel that cassidy said tony ornato described to her upon his return. he was very unsettled and unnerved. i have to tell you with drool dripping, this has not been resolved. whether or not they're going to come forward and give their information, a date has not been set in terms of getting in agreed upon -- i hate to say, stay tuned. >> jug, have you heard of anybody that has emphatically denied president trump's involvement and said that he has not done anything? the best, or most that i have seen the michael flynn's of the world who have pled the fifth dozens and dozens of times. is there anybody that has outrigh

ornado has retained private criminal defense counsel. and we have seen that, also, with respect to one other secret service agent. i think that is significant. >> meanwhile, concern is growing today of a new report detailing a radical plan for trump's second term. axios reports former president trump's top allies are preparing to reshape the federal government by purging thousands of civil servants and filling posts with loyalists to trump and his america first ideology. earlier today on msnbc, democratic congresswoman joe neguse stressing what is at stake if trump were to get back in office. >> it would erode the civil service system that has been a hallmark of federal government service literally for the better part of 100 years. eliminating the political patronage that used to exist within the federal government centuries ago. it is deeply disconcerting. >> and americans are seeing relief at the gas pump today. the average price trending down to 14 97 which is down from last month. john kirby told the biden administration are working

ornado did not have as clear of memories from this period of time, as i would say miss hutchinson did, if that's a fair assessment. but we're always happy to have those who have recalled planes to come back and talk to us. >> i mean, you can read between the lines, right? they didn't get a lot out of ornato. now, the internal secret service communications leading up to, and during that day, on the six, our possibly the most revealing pieces of a contemporary evidence you could ask. four of, course those text messages, our by all the, counts. as are the text from, as we mentioned, chad wolf and ken cuccinelli. and, they're basically two thirds for whatever. near either it was a cover-up, these messages were intentionally erased, or wink, wink, nudge, nudge, erased. or purposely not archive properly. now, that theory makes sense in the broader context when you consider the black hole that seem to consume much of the white house evidence that. for instance, the missing call logs, no call. over the dismissal of the white house photographer. the repays taken by certain, people trump and ot

committee member zoe lofgren now says that the agents who were involved, that includes tony ornado and bobby engle, they have retained private lawyers, and there is concern on the committee that means that they will now refuse to talk and share their account of things. and kate, all of this developing as the committee also says they're getting more information by the day, and they actually expect to have more hearings starting in september. kate? >> definitely more to come. good to see you, thank you so much. >>> joining me for more is cnn's senior political analyst nia mallika hernandez, laura coates, and myles taylor, former chief of staff to trump's homemade security secretary. thank you for being here. nia, just laid out the highlights really, really well. what you get in summary is the president knew, donald trump knew that the capitol was being attacked, very clearly. he knew people were armed. we learned that from previous hearings. we had all of his advisers and family telling him that he singularly could be the one to calm it, stop it, or at least cool it off. and he singularl

next, two former white house staffers, questioning the creditability of secret service agent, tony ornado, plus, the fight to free wnba star brittney griner, what the state department is saying as we learn new details in russia's case against the basketball star. and the grinding war with russia, what the ukrainians are up against now. insurance, so you only pay for what you need. woah! look out! [sfx: submarine rising out of water ] [ sfx: minion spits s bobber ] minions are bitin' today. [ sfx: submarine hatch closes, submarine dives ] ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ hello! minions: the rise of gru, only in theaters. hey! time. it's life's most precious commodity, especially when you have metastatic breast cancer. when your time is threatened, it's hard to invest in your future. until now. kisqali is helping women live longer than ever before when taken with an aromatase inhibitor or fulvestrant... in hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer. kisqali is a pill that's proven to delay disease progression. kisqali can cause lung problems, or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to deat

ornado who was the lead agent who then becomes the deputy chief of staff, you know, whether he was actingn good faith is one of the key questions here so it's not like the secret service in its usual position of being an apolitical enemy, there was overlap in the trump administration. >> counselors, thank you so much for being with us. >> mr. berman. >> we are going to speak with one of the republicans on the january 6th committee. congressman adam kinzinger will be with us. >>> new this morning, u.s. officials are worried about action on china by taiwan. concerns have sharpened in the biden administration over house speaker's nancy pelosi visit to taiwan next month. despite urging her to cancel the trip. joining us cnn, national and political analyst, david sanger, he's the national correspondent for "the new york times" who reported this story. david, tell us a little bit about their concerns. what kind of response they're worried about and just the bigger problem this may play into. >> well, brianna, the government thinking inside the administration and really around the world have bee

ornado has retained private criminal defense counsel. and we have seen that also with respect to one other secret service agent. i think that is significant. i say this is somebody who has huge respect for the secret service. i was protected by them for eight years. but the extent to which there are no text messages from the relevant period of time, the extent to which we have not had the kind of cooperation that we really need to have. those are all things that the committee is going to be looking at in more detail in the coming weeks. >> committee member adam schiff also commenting on this this morning. saying that the reason in liz cheney's words that the fact that they got private counsel is significant is because he says he has a concern that quote, they probably have a concern about the potential criminal liability. something the committee is definitely adamant and getting in this month long recess. >> they sure are. we'll be looking at. that thank you all are often. let us turn to some breaking news, moments ago we got a new updat

zoe lofgren said last night that ornado as well as others have now -- robert engle, have lawyered up, and the driver of the suv. are you confident they're still going cooperate? >> no. it's one thing to through an anonymous source -- i'll give it to them. after cassidy testified, on the right they were totally discrediting her or trying to by saying, you know, look, the thing -- we hear this anonymous source that said it wasn't true. now of course that's melted away. you've had corroboration of her story. she never said she saw it in the first place. she said she heard it. now all the sudden you have secret service members lawyering up and not talking to us. so the point is if you're going to invest everything in trying to discredit a very credible witness, you better make sure you can do it. they failed to. she is unimpeachable, and cassidy hutchinson, she never intended this, she will go down in history like blowing away anybody else that's been part of the january 6th stuff. that's not what she wants, but she's a huge hero. >> a short time ago you shared some of the messages includ

ornado said. the second witness is retired sergeant mark robinson of the d.c.ned to the presidents motorcade that day. he sat in the lead vehicle with a secret service agent responsible for the motorcade, and cold the tsa agent. here's our sergeant robinson remembered the exchange. >> was there any description of what was occurring in the car? >> no, only that -- the only description i received was that the president was upset and was adamant about going to the capital, and there was a heated discussion about that. >> when you say heated, is that your order, is that the were described by the tsa agent? >> the were described by the tsa agent, meaning that the president was upset. he was saying there was a heated argument, or discussion, about going to the capital. >> how many times would you say you've been part of that motorcade with the president? >> probably over 100 times. >> and in that hundred times, have you ever witnessed another discussion of an argument, or he discussion with the president, where the president was contradicting where he was supposed to

previously testified, but we also saw even more texture and detail about the relationship between tony ornado hutchinson. the committee displayed a text very momentarily to wrap up that seven-minute montage between cassidy and tony, where they were texting each other in quite a friendly matter, where she was updating him in realtime about the meeting that was going on, and she described it to tony as unhinged. that's verbatim. told him to get to the white house immediately. we also saw even more documentation from cassidy about that day's meeting. you saw a picture that she took for mark meadows. she said she took one of him every day he was in the white house to essentially memorialize the day's work and that night, she took one of mark meadows walking out with rudy giuliani, arm in arm, so that rudy didn't wander back into the president's mansion to continue his proposal to try to seize voting machines in order to overturn the results of the election and appoint sidney powell as a special counsel in terms of investigating election fraud. and that day, specifically, you see the committee ope