and orrin hatch said a similar thing to me. orrin hatch was always extremely supportive of the n.e.a. and he said to me, "don't waste your time "coming to visit people like me, "who are going to be supportive all the time, "and don't waste your time "going to see people like dick armey, "who are always going to be "against federal funding for the arts. "go for the fence-sitters. "go for the ones who really don't know "what you're doing with the n.e.a. and what art--in-- for our society is all about." and yet you did not shy away from at least engaging some people who clearly were on the other side. you paid visits to jesse helms, newt gingrich. was that time well invested? i do believe it was in the long run. jesse helms and i-- we must never forget that he's a courtly southern gentleman, and he's not an uncivil person at all in person. he's quite charming, in fact. he and i obviously were going differ on many, many things, but he was an important person and an important person to get to know, to pay attention to. i tried to un

. >> plus, senator orrin hatch says president obama doesn't get it. doesn't get what? he will tell you. >> first, breaking news, president obama scrambling in new york city to try to avert what could turn into an irreversible barrier to peace in israel. in 36 hours palestinian authority president mahmoud abbas will file at the u.n. for statehood recognition. john bolton joins us. good evening. a done deal? anything the president can do to stop that filing which we expect friday? >> not at this point. not unless he does something that would fundamentally violate his principles. if he threatened to cut off funding to the united nations if it endorses this palestinian move it would stop it. i don't see any chance he's going to do that. in fact, he's gone back to washington. >> greta: we have -- tell me this, did we have to get this to this breaking point in this? we've known this was coming. >> i think the president is partially responsible. last year he said he expected to greet a new palestinian state. say by agreement, that's true. but he created the impression as time

. >> you know, orrin hatch is one of my best friends and orrin hatch and i have written a couple of songsted kennedy and sit in congress, or the senate and yell at each other, whatever and ted kennedy would go over to warren and say, how did i do? [laughter] >> and there is an essence of that, there is, you know, when you boil it all down. what our lives are about is about love and service i'm the luckiest man in the world, i'm a grateful man and i thank god every day, and 21 years sober, been a part of my life. >> mike: wonderful, congratulations. [applause] >> and i'm real open about that and all, but this is my favorite song and i wrote it with kenny asher, one of the nicest guys in show business. and there's a line in it, that i think fits nicely on this show. ♪ why are there so many songs about rainbows ♪ ♪ and what's on the other side ♪ ♪ will rainbows are visions, but only illusions and rainbows have nothing to hide ♪ ♪ well, so we've been told and used to believe it ♪ ♪, but i know they're wrong, wait and see ♪ ♪ and some day we will find it, the rainbow connection ♪ ♪ the lover,

orrin hatch of utah is the ranking republican on the senate finance committee., nice to have you back with us. >> nice to be with you. jenna: in all the times i've spoken i don't think i've talked to you about some of the previous jobs you've had in your life. you've been a senator since 1976, but you also worked if i'm reading this correctly, as a janitor, also an all-night desk attendant in a dorm as you were trying to earn your law degree. so you certainly had quite a dynamic experience professionally. tell us what is the key to job creation having seen your professional live from so many different angles? >> i also learn ad killed trade and became a member of afl-cio and was proud of it. all i can say is that secret is unleash small business and let small business create jobs. the best way to do that is reduce taxes and reduce regulations. you know, i think we're going to have to repeal obamacare because that, that is going to cost in taxes and penalties, $1.1 trillion over the next number of years. it's going, according to the doug elmendorf, dr. elmendorf,

conference wednesday, eight republicans, including the top republican on the senate finance committee, orrin hatch,... called on obama to quickly send the bills to congress, as these deals would result in tens of billions of dollars in exports... and 250-thousand new jobs. however, senate majority leader and democrat harry reid told reporters the same day... that the senate would only take up the trade bills once the house passes the trade adjustment assistance,... or taa program. the program is designed to provide re -training and health care benefits for american workers... who lose their jobs due to import competition. according to the path forward plan that senate members agreed to last month to ratify the pending free trade pacts,... the senate is now expected to attach the taa program to the bill and send it back to the house. once obama sends the fta bills for an up-or-down vote at the house, it will hold a vote on the trade deals and on the bill combining the gsp and taa separately. if both are passed,... the gsp and taa combined bill would be ready to be signed into law,... while the trad

this summer senator orrin hatch of utah fighting for his life against the tea partiers out there suggests that the poor aren't doing their fair share. this is crazy talk, but let's listen. >> i get a little tired of hearing the obama presidency talk about shared sacrifice. and i hear how they're caring for the poor and so forth. the poor need jobs. and they also need to share some of the responsibility. >> you know, just -- e.j. and sam, last thoughts. what do you make of michele bachmann in that last debate? i didn't think the moderators followed up and they should have. she said, i don't want to pay anything to the government. i shouldn't have to pay --ish keep every nickel i earn. that's crazy talk! isn't it? i mean, who is going to pay for the bridges, the wars, and the fence they want built across the mexican border? who's supposed to pay for it if you don't pay anything in taxes? e.j., then sam. >> and the other thing, by the way, and it's great to me what sam brings up folks like robert taft, in our history. but the thing about government is no one benefits more than government tha

i keep hearing orrin hatch -- they are attacking poor people. >> the poor people. isn't that class warfare in. >> the poor people don't make enough money to -- to pay taxes so we resent them for it, and so it -- i mean, it's a little class warfarish, if you will. the president is really just doing something the democrats have always done which is talking about how the wealthier among us ought to be willing to pay their fair share, and for generations the wealthy among us were, and i actually think many of the wealthy among us still are, but the republicans don't want to do it. they are talking about jets. they are talking about warren buffett paying a lower tax rate than his secretary because it's something that people can understand, and it's something that people frankly don't like very much. when they find out -- >> you can respond to that, todd. here's the president earlier this week hitting republicans for using the class warfare argument against him. >> republicans are going around talking about, well, that's class warfare. you know what? if asking a billiona

. >> orrin hatch for a long time -- >> congressman burgess, as well. what you see in this off-season, ohio state, the u, treacherous scandals there, tons of issues about paying for players and all that. you're now seeing an organization that has tax-exempt status in a lot of capacity. >> but making a ton of money. >> astronomical amounts of money and now actually putting kids in difficult positions and not really caring about the kids, not really caring about the academics, caring more about the almighty dollar and the bottom line. >> but they would argue they need that money in order to fund the other parts of the athletic department and -- >> correct. >> -- to put money -- >> a lot of good arguments but when you have the possibility of super conferences emerging, let's tell people what those will be. you could have a situation where the s.e.c. as we know it, the acc, the big ten, the big east, all these super -- all these conferences say, you know what, we're not going to play in the ncaa anymore. we're going to secede from the ncaa and create this b

orrin hatch never heard of the guy. he killed him. >> right, go on. >> so these right wing guys do win general elections. the idea that if you're far right you can't win is wrong. the left always gets it wrong. they always think, let us run against a right winger, we can beat him easy. i still think it's easy to beat rick perry. thank you, pat buchanan, and if i can't push bachmann, i've got to push perry. >>> coming up, it wasn't just the establishment shirts like romney coming after perry last night, the skins got into the debate as well, hitting the texas governor from the right. he was getting battered. can perry take the punches and keep on fighting? you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. >>> well, voters are actually voting today. they're heading to the polls today in a pair of special elections and house races in upstate, actually, in brooklyn, new york, and in nevada. as first read points out, democrats were expecting one to be a nail biter and the other to be a employblowout for them. but the problem for dem

orrin hatch never heard of the guy. he killed him. >> right, go on. >> so these right wing guys do win general elections. the idea that if you're far right you can't win is wrong. >> they get out the energy and the enthusiasm and fire. >> the left always gets it wrong. they always think, let us run against a right winger, we can beat him easy. yeah, we'll see. although i still think it's easier to beat rick perry. thank you, pat buchanan, and if i can't push bachmann, i've got to push perry. >>> coming up, it wasn't just the establishment shirts like romney coming after perry last night, the skins got into the game, too, hitting the texas governor from the right. he was getting battered. can perry take the punches and keep on fighting? you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. not that long ago, many families were priced out of an overheated housing market. but the times have changed. get the facts at remax.com. it's a great place to see all the listings in thousands of cities and towns. with lots of houses to chose fro

you have experienced hand in the senate finance committee with max baucus and orrin hatch and john kerry. you have philosophical balances and the lot of hearings. when i was on the finance committee we were having hearings than and a run up of what should be tax reform. tax reform. broadbased fundamental tax reform takes three years. have a hearing and ask questions and close the loopholes that if they get so charged and look across the board and make a fair tax code and take away the incentives and breaks for different groups and individuals but lower the rates for individuals and corporate tax rate it would be very good for the country and for job creation. one of the things i say to paul ryan who is chairman of the budget committee in the house, your old hero jack kennedy used to say never say the word cuts or balanced budgets without saying growth. what is it your going to do to have responsible budget? do in a way in terms of tax code and where you spend or don't spend in a way that will provide growth in the economy and we lost that second word. i would be for the broadbased fundam

and quickly thereafter signed on bye senator orrin hatch and rand paulen and a few others. that a balanced budget amendment has three additional restrictions beyond the very basic provision that income and outlays must match. those three provisions are a super majority to raise taxes, two-thirds in its original form, the cap on spending, federal spending as a percentage of our total the economy or gross domestic product of 18%, and then a third restriction that many people are not aware of because it only consists of one sentence in the law, but it's a very important one, and it is one that specifically strips the court of the power to mandate the court ordered the tax increase. that is contrasted with the version of the balanced budget amendment that you remember very well from 1995 that came within a vote of passing because that was a very simple balanced budget amendment that is essentially just said that income and outlays must match. i'd like to have first leader armey and then grover talk about these restrictions, helen porth and you think they are and how they might

dick armey refer to the balanced budget amendment offered by senator lee, and then signed on by orrin hatchaul, and a few others. there are three additional restrictions beyond the very basic provision that income and outlays must match. those three provisions are a super majority to raise taxes, 2/3, in its original form, a cap on spending, federal spending as a percentage of our total economy or gross domestic product of 18%, and then a third restriction that many people are not aware of because it only consist of one sentence in the law, but it is a very important one, and is one that specifically strips the courts of the power to mandate, to a court order a tax increase. that is contrasted with the version of the balanced budget amendment that you remember very well from 1995 that came within a vote of passing, because that was a very simple balanced budget amendment that essentially just said incomes and outlays must match. i would like to have first leader dick armey, and then grover norquist talk about these restrictions, how important they are, and how they must function, because i

orrin wants to talk about that. >> we can't support. we are -- i think most of us are for tax cuts. that would amount to a tax cut. as you know it was the shumer-hatch bill, one of the first bills passed in this administration. let me just say a couple other things since you asked that question. i'm hoping that he'll bring with him the three trade agreements, free trade agreements for korea, colombia and panama and submit them so that we can vote on them up here on the united states senate and the house of representatives. should we pass those free trade agreements that will create upwards of 250,000 new jobs. i can't for the life of me understand why this has gone on and on and on for this long. to get that done it seems that senator reid will have to amend the g.s.p. that's just been sent over by the house. the generalized system -- preference system, and so forth, he will have to amend that since it's a money bill from the house with the t.a.a. and then send it back to the house so we can automatically get this done. number one, i'd like to get those free trade agreements done and i hope he has it with them to hand it up to the united states sena