but this is part of the overalle rm. california is really behind the ball. we have bill reform in indiana, kentucky, nd. we need to have it here in california. >> and under the broader umbrella of criminalustice reform, we have about a dozen judges up for re-election in june in san ancisco. we have four public defenders running against them, very rare for incumbent judges to face challengers. what do you think is driving this? >> these four public fenders decided to run in this race that's coming up and it's unusual because we don't have a lot of public defenders who are appointed directly to the bench. we've only had one in 40 years. we often see prosecutors. tse particular public defenders are running against four judges who are appointed by republican and i certainly will support them. i think it's important -- >> why do yo think they're running, though? why this year, driven in part by what we're seeing happen under the trump administration or other factors? >> bo of those things. you're seeing trump appointing a lot of judges and you're seeth g push for

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