we don't insist people talk about overincarceration. part of the problem we have in the country, highest rate of incarceration in the world and we are not ashamed of it. we ought to be ashamed of -- to be putting such a high percentage of our population in jails and8 that's not the land of the free. >> your answer about how this has to be viewed and approached. what about the white folks? who -- who many of whom for obvious reasons don't see that they have ain't or stake in this issue. >> i think it is -- i think that -- one point is that increasingly, all communities are being impacted by this. we saw a real reform on drug crimes when it started impacting middle-income families and affluent families in places where drug rates were catching up with all of he is folks. there is a growing awareness about that. i also think the economic implications obviously affect everybody. i don't think this is just about race. i really don't thk that, you know, when you look at mass incarceration in this country, the disproportionately impacted in col