i could not think of anybody that would want him dead, besides dawn. >> dawn, dawn oxley, ben oxley's ex-wife, alyssa's mother, even though -- ben's best friends told each other. >> everything in me said that dawn had something to do with that. >> of course, just a few years back, that sort of thing would've been unimaginable to dawn's best friends, scott and we sidney graham. not dawn, dawn the force of nature, the center of the room she's in. >> i don't know is manipulating, but everyone agreed with daw. if she was happy, we were all happy. >> but after five years of marriage, neither ben nor dawn were happy, and the marriage went up in flames. >> ben had cheated on dawn. i can see that this probably wasn't something that she was going to get over. >> dawn changed after that, said cindy, didn't seem to want to act like a parent anymore. >> she met a guy and she would stay the night at his house. when her kids are calling us to tell us that we have no more food in the house, can you bring us food, there's a problem. >> so when ben and dawn went to court to fight for the custody of al

they seem to hate most regulations sarbanes oxley has now last is the making industry better off with it or without it sharpens actually quite accurately was this at get on. right? said you need good internal control. so that's what it's all about in internal controls, are you actually know what's happening at your institution? and you're acting appropriately in light of that knowledge was the 2nd part. but the 2nd part was assumed, right? they assume that the bankers simply didn't know. whereas the top bankers were a problem, no. and they just wanted to hide it. so what are the bankers do when they implemented sarbanes oxley, they went to the most anal, most bureaucratic means of implementing it possible. they hired outside top audit firms, who here's a shock created a one size fits all documents, which sometimes when they sold you, they hadn't even figured out that they hadn't raised the prior banks name in the form document. so we got to sell the same thing. hundreds of times it made a ton of money, but there was no real buy in at the bank. so, so i ran to actually is right. they t

so what are the bankers do when they implemented sarbanes oxley? they went to the most anal, most bureaucratic means of implementing it possible. they hired outside top audit firms, who here's a shock created a one size fits all documents, which sometimes when they sold you, they hadn't even figured out that they hadn't raised the prior banks name in the form document. so we got to sell the same thing. hundreds of times it made a ton of money, but there was no real buy in at the bank. so, serbians actually is right. they, their internal controls stopped. but surveys actually assumed it was because they just didn't know how to make good controls. they know how to make good control for a 100 years. they have crappy controls because they don't want to alert the regulators to the problem. they want to perverse incentives because of perverse incentives, turn it out. it assures thing for the managers economist still talk in terms of what the bank wants, what the banks, incentives are, what the bank is seeking to accomplish. banks are people they have tho

final word to you, john oxley . final word to you, john oxley.y, many more years? >> i think that's always >> well, i think that's always the question. seen the key question. we've seen time these time and time again these inquiries on forever. the inquiries go on forever. the sunday inquiry went on for years. it was hugely expensive and often fail to get into and often they fail to get into the real gritty questions as and they do get bogged down in supplemental things and the other problem is you're always chasing after the last crisis. they will come out with all sorts of recommendations about how we deal with the potential for the next pandemic. but but then there will be potentially a major terror attack and we'll find our response for that has been completely neglected in the same way that pre—pandemic planning had been. so i'm very sceptical that it will, you know, really help governments in future function . future function. >> yes, i don't i imagine most people don't care so much about dominic cummings use of foul language, more so than

he was fcc chairman at the time, fraud scandals in congress, ended up passing sarbanes-oxley act whichn public companies and had an intended consequences including deterring companies from going public. i don't think that is what we want for a special department for bureaucracy to oversee colleges. we have a department of education which can handle civil rights investigations if there is anti-semitism on campus. however, i would support some kind of legislation that would hold colleges accountable for student loans that are prepaid. that the pressing problem and the federal government does have something at stake in that. paul: i think we need a new agency but that means probably you are going to have to put pressure from trustees who are supposed to be running institutions on college presidents and faculties to tolerate freedom of speech and is that -- donors put pressure. would that be your solution? >> absolutely. i would 20 it with something to do with government. all these people calling for greater federal role. we need to get the federal government out of these universities, not

oxley mind we would not have this year we had last year is really important point. further questions? crux for both of you this packet of maintenance needs, going forward in the infrastructure but money is gone and the other money is there, is there any plan to basically have a sinking fund to address what's aptly abt going to be maintenance means or is it going to be a one off appropriations process? quickly hope it gets reauthorized, governor. governor. the need is there. yellowstone byon itself is right and a billion dollars in deferred maintenance. we've been very fortunate to the legacy fund and great outdoors act to receive hundreds of millions of dollars for critical needs. but i want you to think about it in the context of the system paid hundreds of billions of dollars in assets, 300 plus million visitors utilizing those assets bathrooms, bridges, you etname it. what are the most critical to prioritize? what is that amount over time? how to be best address them? the first shot of the american outdoors act funding has been incredibly important. but now we go

melissa oxley: horrible, knowing the person hello, i'm craig melvin, and this is "dateline." that youe you're shaken in the dead of night. >> horrible. knowing the person that you

well, we're going they won't need roads. >> well, john oxley, thank you so much for talking us throughues of conservative electability and indeed, policy conundrums. conservative electability and indeed, policy conundrums . still indeed, policy conundrums. still to come, access to class b and c drugs is on the rise , but a drugs is on the rise, but a conservative police and crime commissioner has said that law enforcement around them is pathetically weak. this is britain's newsroom on . sunday mornings from 930 on . gb sunday mornings from 930 on. gb news good morning. >> it's 1024 and you're with britain's newsroom here on gb news with me, tom harwood. now, earlier this month, nitrous oxide popularly known as laughing gas or on the streets as nosse became an illegal class c substance due to possible psychological and physical harm. but what's the point if the law can't be enforced? alison hernandez, conservative police and crime commissioner for devon and crime commissioner for devon and cornwall, has declared war on class b and c, drugs like laughing gas, cannabis and describing extr