p.j. crowley. it's so good to see you. thank you so much for doing this, p.j. you, by the way. russia's assault on ukraine is intensifying with explosions in kyiv, fierce fighting across the country, and talks between ukraine and russia are paused until tomorrow. you say we're not yet in a window to achieve a cease fire. why do you say that? >> well, because vladimir putin invaded ukraine. the war is started. once that happens, military force is kind of a gravitational, you know, force, and that will only change -- that dynamic changes either, you know, when the military achieves its objective or encounters an insurmountable obstacle that forces the leadership to increase its calculations. we aren't at that point yet. >> you said until vladimir putin changes his calculation or adjusts his expectations. he's not going to negotiations. so what needs to happen to get him to change his expectations? is that even realistic? >> i mean, it is realistic in the sense that we now have a battlefield, what happens on the battlefield matters. you know, the good news here as

p.j. crowley, former state department spokesperson in the obama administration. awfully good to see you. let's talk about president biden who has largely been very careful with his words since the start of this invasion although he has called president putin a war criminal and a butcher. how unusual and important is it that the state department clarify biden's comment in yesterday's speech? >> well, i think we heard from the president that this is precisely what he thinks. normally you hear these comments in the situation room at the white house. he said something out loud. and i think, you know, notwithstanding the attempt to clarify that this doesn't mean the united states is changing its approach to russia in terms of trying to assertively try to push putin from office, i do think that the president's comments about being a war criminal as well as saying that russia merits a better leader, will have a longer term impact in terms of, say, sanctions, for example. and it's going to be very difficult to take steps in the future that relieve pressure on someone like

p.j. crowley now, former u.s. assistant secretary of state for public affairs under president obama. p.j., you know, watching alex crawford's absolutely incredible work there and seeing what has happened, it is really hard to process. >> it is, shepard, but this is modern warfare warfares are no longer fought in defined battlefields they're fought in cities and among populations. those populations suffer the most. >> this battle between the u.s. and russia is playing out at the gas pumps now. how could that impact what happens in ukraine >> well, it's a test of will, right? putin probably has not yet changed his strategic calculations he's still betting that over time, the ukrainians' ability to resist will be diminished and over time the costs that ripple from ukraine into the global economy will create pressure to try to resolve this on terms that vladimir putin will find acceptable. >> you know, the peace talks are ongoing, but who thinks vladimir putin actually wants peace >> well, the peace talks will have some meaning at some point. but negotiations tend to follow what's happeni