pakistan relations after a cross border attack that left up to twenty pakistanis dead and pakistani public opinion outraged and the stakes could not be higher for the obama administration counting on pakistan's support to wind down the last war in afghanistan. taking. to cross-talk u.s. pakistani relations i'm joined by akhmed my g.d.r. in washington he is a senior research associate at the american enterprise institute also in washington we have robert right near he is chairman of the advisory board of e.r. g. partners and the cia's former top counterterrorism official all right gentlemen this is crosstalk that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it but first let's go to our correspondent is it doesn't look like these two countries are at loggerheads or are they going to have a collision well we'll see if it goes this far but it does appear that all efforts to mend this troubled relationship are experiencing repeated reversal we've seen this here in the killing of two pakistanis by a ca contractor may cessation of osama bin laden more recently by u.s. accusati

pursue a tougher line with the pakistani government and the pakistani military and the i.s.i. does not change its probe militant policies ok robert i go back to you i got to go back to that article that you wrote pakistan going rogue you wrote at the very end of it the u.s. has far more at stake in pakistan than it does in afghanistan can you explain that because it's very interesting in light of what a lot of republican candidates have been saying about pakistan during the recent debates. you know i think just building on some of that you said a moment ago that in the process of trying to to win or at least create a dignified exit for itself in afghanistan the u.s. runs the risk of helping to destroy pakistan. i think that that's quite true and i think that our obsession with afghanistan is tending to blind us to the fact that a great deal more harm to american interests could arise as a result of the dissolution of. civil society and politics in pakistan i disagree in a way that the u.s. is going to. be able to to increase its leverage over pakistan at the same time that pak

this is hardly the first poem the pakistani cell from two thousand and four in the fall of the united states is not the first time the pakistani citizens killed by the united states were breaking up is hard to do when the u.s. and pakistan relationship is on life support so what happens in tie between the two countries collapsed completely. and if the massacre of the us doesn't want you to know about thousands of taliban prisoners of war killed and then burry both by the dirt and paperwork because according to the bush administration all is fair in the war on terror. and speaking of all it's fair bring on the waterboarding and enhanced interrogation tactics that's right the u.s. senators don't see a problem with returning to our tortured past. it's thursday december first seven pm in washington d.c. i listen while you're watching our team. well we start this hour with what could be one of the worst atrocities in the war on terror yet many americans don't even know what happened this month marks the ten year anniversary of the mass for that so police and afghanistan it has been a dash

and pakistani relations out had an all time low take a lot. i think there's no question about this since. independence the relationship has never been as torn to this right now this last year two thousand and eleven has been the rockiest year yet and their relationship and yielded a very specific incident so that punctuate the first to be early in the year we had . the raymond davis. acting cia station chief who shot and killed two pakistanis who turned out to be intelligent so exhilarating then of course we had the osama bin laden raid which i think from the perspective of us was a must have to be done and fully justified but nevertheless was hugely embarrassing to practice efforts of course really reveal the fact that he was there obviously operating under the protection of senior military figures and the raid with our without getting permission seventy authorities and now we have this latest and spent well with the death already for up especially soldiers so we had two incidents clearly are serious mistakes that the americans say that that'

about the true location of pakistani military units. this, coupled with our gaffes in information about the activities in placement from units from both sides contributed to the tragic result. >> warner: the pentagon expressed regret for the loss of life and the inadequate coordination in what's been the deadliest friendly fire incident of the afghan war. for more on the story, we go to "wall street journal" reporter adam entous. >> warner: adam, welcome. so set the scene for us. what happened that deadly night? >> well, what happened was is we had what appeared to be a routine operation, about 120 afghan and u.s. commandos came into a valley. they land in helicopters. it's pitch-black. there's no moon that night. and they begin to ascend. as they're winding up these narrow trails they take fire from overhead and that's when the-- that's when this engagement begins and the mistakes begin to add up. >> warner: well, the general who did brief reporters today said there were two critical, i think he called them points of failure on the par

the pakistanis understand that.he closer you get to exit, the more you realize, wow, they're not going to pay up as much anymore. what are we going to do? what's our option? i think it does start to unravel before we get to the end of that game. >> you have a guy, steven crazner, former bush department official, who had the job anne-marie had, who says we should cut all aide to the pakistani military. >> i think we're getting to the point where many, many people in the u.s. government and around the u.s. government just are not convinced that we're getting anything from the pakistanis enough to make it worth accepting the abuse that we're continuing to accept. and as we move out of afghanistan and as we can do more with drones and attacks on sanctuaries ourselves, the feeling is basically, look, we can take care of our own security needs, and if the pakistanis won't do it, then let them be. >> you've seen this relationship on the inside. how frustrated do you think u.s. officials are about the dealings with pakistan

and pakistani military forces.s the director of plans, programs, requirements and assessments for air force special operations command. he's a command pilot, with more than 3,500 flight hours in eight different fixed-wing aircraft. he joins us this morning from hurlburt field, florida. before i turn it over to general clark, i want to convey in person what we've already said in writing. the investigation into the 25-26 november engagement between u.s. and pakistani military forces across the border has been completed. the findings and conclusions were forwarded to the department through the chain of command. the results have also been shared with the pakistani and afghan governments, as well as key nato leadership. the investigating officer found that u.s. forces, given what information they had available to them at the time, acted in self- defense and with appropriate force after being fired upon. he also found that there was no intentional effort to target persons or places known to be part of the pakistani milit

about the true location of pakistani military units. this, coupled with our gaffes in information about the activities in placement from units from both sides contributed to the tragic result. >> warner: the pentagon expressed regret for the loss of life and the inadequate coordination in what's been the deadliest friendly fire incident of the afghan war. for more on the story, we go to "wall street journal" reporter adam entous. >> warner: adam, welcome. so set the scene for us. what happened that deadly night? >> well, what happened was is we had what appeared to be a routine operation, about 120 afghan and u.s. commandos came into a valley. they land in helicopters. it's pitch-black. there's no moon that night. and they begin to ascend. as they're winding up these narrow trails they take fire from overhead and that's when the-- that's when this engagement begins and the mistakes begin to add up. >> warner: well, the general who did brief reporters today said there were two critical, i think he called them points of failure on the par

webster good evening the pakistani foreign minister said the country will fight the war on terror on its own terms and conditions is that what this reported tax plan is all about then indeed we would like to see any more moves from the pakistani side. i would say this idea of attacks is a cheap trick to provide political cover for pakistani politicians who want to cave in and appease the united states one more time the original idea was since the united states killed twenty five pakistani soldiers i think deliberately that was basically the end of it no more transit rights across pakistan now the idea of attacks may sound like something radical but it's really not radical it's a way to get this flow of military supplies going i would suggest we ought to go back to how did this start this about ten years ago there was an ultimatum delivered in the wake of nine eleven by colin powell and richard armitage to the pakistani government at that time. and they said if you don't give us transit rights across pakistan we will bomb you back into the stone age so this is not an alliance this is

pakistani relations have had an on time well. i think there's a question about this since i dispense independence the relationship has never been asked for and it says right now this last year two thousand and eleven has been the rockiest year yet in a relationship and you know there are very specific incidents that punctuate the first to be early in the year we had. the raymond davis. acting cia station chief who shot and killed two pakistanis who turned out to be intelligence so exhilarates then of course we had the osama bin ladin. which i think from the perspective of us was a must have to be done and fully justified but nevertheless was hugely embarrassing to talk a sense of course it really revealed the fact that he was there obviously operating under the protection of senior military figures and the rate with or without getting permission from the pakistani authorities and then we have this latest incident of waiting the death of twenty four pakistani soldiers so we have two incidents we really are serious mistakes that th

-pakistani relations in a year when trust between them dropped. we take a look at the 12 months in which these two suppose it allies worst crisis to crisis. >> what a turbulent year for pakistani-american relations. in january, a cia contractor shot dead a key pakistani's on this very junction. there is a diplomatic route between islamabad and washington. this caused outrage against the u.s. here in pakistan. the fury was directed not only at the u.s. but the pakistani government for what many saw as a subservient relationship with washington. this would only intensify with the trauma that soon followed. >> i can report to the american people and to the world that the u.s. is conducting an operation that killed osama bin laden, the leader of al qaeda. >> there was a sense of shock that pakistan greeted the news that bin laden had been found not in a remote area of the mountains but in a garrison town, home to the military academy. the world heard he could have been living here for more than five years, many suspected pakistani collusion. >> this h

-pakistani relations in a year when trust between them dropped. we take a look at the 12 months in which these two suppose it allies worst crisis to crisis. >> what a turbulent year for pakistani-american relations. in january, a cia contractor shot dead a key pakistani's on this very junction. there is a diplomatic route between islamabad and washington. this caused outrage against the u.s. here in pakistan. the fury was directed not only at the u.s. but the pakistani government for what many saw as a subservient relationship with washington. this would only intensify with the trauma that soon followed. >> i can report to the american people and to the world that the u.s. is conducting an operation that killed osama bin laden, the leader of al qaeda. >> there was a sense of shock that pakistan greeted the news that bin laden had been found not in a remote area of the mountains but in a garrison town, home to the military academy. the world heard he could have been living here for more than five years, many suspected pakistani collusion. >> this h

many suspected pakistani collusion. >> this one incident some house sadly -- some how sadly brushed aside the whole 10-year record of pakistan fighting against al- qaeda. the largest number of al-qaeda operators ever captured anywhere in the world have been captured with pakistani help. still laden's compound is standing and still sealed off. many people in abbottabad never believed he was there and many pakistanis never acknowledged he was killed. most of the debate has not been about bin laden at all, but held the americans dared to carry out the raid without the permission of the pakistanis. another notch in september. america's most senior military operation pointed a finger at pakistan after a truck bombing in kabul. >> the network acts as a veritable army of pakistan's internal service intelligence agency. operatives plant and conducted the truck bomb attack, as well as the assault on our embassy. 2011 ended with another serious blow to relations. 24 pakistani soldiers killed in a nato attack on the border post. the old cliche that both sides need each other too much is looking vuln

that there is no pakistani military in the area.e first point where we have found a series of miscommunications to have occurred. >> the real problem is that that u.s.-nato counter part did not provide the longitude and latitude of the location to the pakistani colonel. >> jon: why didn't they share those coordinants? >> well, essentially we are told they didn't do so because they didn't trust the pakistanis. we learned during the investigation today that the nato and operator was told not to share those coordinants with the pakistanis because they had misused that information in the past. he gives the pakistani colonel a general description of where the firing is occurring. >> one person received the exact coordinants. he input it into his machine which then brings up a map. he has his opinion configured incorrectly. but he thought it was the regional border. he had been told not to pass the coordinants but to only give a general location. >> the u.s. military is now offering to pay reparation of the family of the soldiers who were

we further express saver condolences to the pakistani people, to the pakistani government, and to the families of the soldiers that were killed. -- we further express sincere condolences to the pakistani people. son was killed in the incident. he said that nothing will make him for give. >> if i had the means, i would set the whole of america on fire. when your son is killed, your only thought is to destroy the killers. the perception of the u.s. has plunged to a new low. a huge anti-american demonstrations were held. the government has got some of his cooperation with washington. the question now is whether the acknowledgement by the americans that they made mistakes in the killing of the pakistani soldiers will be enough to get the relationship back on track because there are many in washington who feel that it is near impossible to win the war in afghanistan unless pakistan is back on their side. the u.s. is hoping that pakistan will reopen the supply route to coalition troops. the two main arteries were blocked after the attack. trucks were not allowed across the border and the fe

military in pakistan really left no choice and also the humiliation that the pakistani military faced in front of its own soldiers and the pakistani people left no choice before the government this time but to cut off the supply line good relations between the u.s. and pakistan as unstable as ever in order to keep the warring of ghana stand running nato relies more on its other major supply route coming from the more. here it is the north and distribution network you see all these blue lines and here is the route that pakistan shut down now the northern supply network was thought it when russia agreed to provide this territory and airspace for transit if non-lethal supplies to nato troops in afghanistan it proved to be a very reliable route more reliable than pakistan now it accounts for half of nato as non-lethal supplies on trucks railroads and by air supplies travel through russian territory from europe and from russia's far east all the way to afghanistan and the reliance on this route is set to expand in the last three years russia's cooperation on of ghana sent has been key to n

and cannon fire, killing 24 pakistani soldiers. but how could this happen? a u.s. military investigation found miscommunications and a lack of coordination between u.s. and pakistani forces. and american commanders' maps were nine miles off target. more disturbing the u.s. military gave the pakistanis imprecise information during the operation because the americans simply don't trust them. and that distrust and suspicion is mutual. >> they lose sight of the fact that they have very shared, common interests in the region. and that's the target that they forget and they end up shooting at each other. >> reporter: distrust that threatens the u.s. war effort in afghanistan. >> we cannot operate effectively on the border or in other parts of our relationship without addressing the fundamental trust still lacking between us. >> reporter: not surprisingly the pakistanis reject the u.s. findings and regaining the trust seems more distant than ever. jim miklaszewski, nbc news, the pentagon. >>> in this country on the gop campaign trail toda

sentiment among pakistanis. they are angry about the u.s.ary operations and the civilian casualties, especially those caused by the u.s. drone attacks. nhk world's hideki ewi reports from pakistan. >> translator: anti-american demonstrations are continuing across pakistan. the protesters are demanding an end to the u.s. drone raids. [ cheers and applause ] >> reporter: the u.s. military has stepped up its drone attacks. suspecting residents of harboring armed insurgents. but this has led to the killing of civilians. this town is some 150 kilometers from the border with afghanistan in northwestern pakistan. many refugees have come here to escape the drone attacks. this man lost his three sons in a u.s. drone attack. he fled here with his relatives. >> translator: many innocent people, including women and children, have died. some of the victims may have been terrorists. but too many civilians have been killed. in these attacks. >> reporter: this 6-year-old boy became a refugee two years ago. he said the sound of the drones is still disturbing

about the true location of pakistani military units. this, coupled with our gaffes in information about the activities in placement from units from both sides contributed to the tragic result. >> warner: the pentagon expressed regret for the loss of life and the inadequate coordination in what's been the deadliest friendly fire incident of the afghan war. for more on the story, we go to "wall street journal" reporter adam entous. >> warner: adam, welcome. so set the scene for us. what happened that deadly night? >> well, what happened was is we had what appeared to be a routine operation, about 120 afghan and u.s. commandos came into a valley. they land in helicopters. it's pitch-black. there's no moon that night. and they begin to ascend. as they're winding up these narrow trails they take fire from overhead and that's when the-- that's when this engagement begins and the mistakes begin to add up. >> warner: well, the general who did brief reporters today said there were two critical, i think he called them points of failure on the par

fire killing 24 pakistani soldiers. but how could this happen? a u.s. military investigation found miscommunications and a lack of coordination between u.s. and pakistani forces. and american commanders maps were nine miles off target. more disturbing the u.s. military gave the pakistanis imprecise information during the operation because the americans simply don't trust them. and that distrust and suspicion is mutual. >> they lose sight of the fact that they have very shared, common interests in the region. and that's the target that they forget and they end up shooting at each other. >> reporter: distrust that threatens the u.s. war effort in afghanistan. >> we cannot operate effectively on the border or in other parts of our relationship without addressing the fundamental trust still lacking between us. >> reporter: not surprisingly the pakistanis reject the u.s. findings and regaining the trust seems more distant than ever. jim miklaszewski, nbc news, the pentagon. >>> in this country on the gop campaign trail today

people, to the pakistani government and most importantly to the families of the pakistani soldiers who were killed or wounded. >> reporter: the incident happened november 25 along the afghanistan/pakistan border. four helicopters dropped 120 coalition troops on a mission to clear a nearby village. u.s. commanders had been told pakistan had no border posts in that area, but suddenly the troops came under heavy fire from a ridge-top bunker. u.s. warplanes were called in to drop flairs, a signal to the gunners in the bunker they were firing on u.s. and afghan commandos. but when that firing continued, ground commanders concluded they were facing insurgent enemy forces. air strikes were ordered. over two hours, there were three separate fire fights, with u.s. warplanes striking two pakistani border outposts. pentagon investigators conceded the battle was prolonged by mistakes. u.s. forces relied on inaccurate maps and commanders did not tell the pakistanis the precise location of coalition troops, saying past missions had been compromised when battle plans had been shared. pakistan militar

cannon fight, killing 24 pakistani soldiers. how could this happen? a u.s. military investigation found miscommunications and a lack of coordination between u.s. and pakistani forces and american commanders maps were nine miles off target. more disturbing, the u.s. military gave them inprecise information during that operation because the americans simply don't trust them. that distrust and suspicion is mutual. >> they lose sight of the fact that they have shared common interests in the region. that that's what they forget. they end up shooting at each other. >> reporter: this trust that threatens the u.s. war effort in afghanistan. >> we cannot operate effectively on the border without addressing the fundamental trust lacking between us. >> reporter: the pakistani's reject the u.s. findings. getting that trust is more distant than ever. >> why didn't we have those cool graphics. look at this. it's call of duty! >> okay. >> his polyester sports jacket. >> willie goes to a break now. >> hold on a second? >> what are you doing? >>

military on the ground nor for the pakistani army in fact that pakistani military flatly denied their results in fact that pakistan erection to the pentagon investigation was totally predictable the pentagon announcement states that the u.s. forces involved in this baleful accident acted in self-defense and to be the appropriate use of force after being fired upon these particular awardee is in the attempt to exonerate the us chain of command for taking such in their warning is an baleful decision and tacitly shift the blame to the pakistani side small wonder that pakistani leadership at large and especially them military leadership were in reach by the conclusions all of that pentagon investigation. take a look now at some other stories making headlines across the globe japan says the fukushima nuclear crisis was down to the plant operators being ill prepared and responding incorrectly to the earthquake and tsunami disaster a major government probe cites engineers abandoning the plant as it got into trouble due to delays in reporting a significant radiation leaks explosions at four r

military on the ground nor for the pakistani army in fact that pakistani military flatly denied theirresults in fact that pakistan or action to that pentagon investigation was totally predictable the pentagon announcement states that the u.s. forces involved in this baleful accident acted in self-defense and be the appropriate use of force after being fired upon this particular warning is an awkward attempt to exonerate the u.s. chain of command for taking such an erroneous and baleful decision and tacitly shift the blame to the pakistani side small wonder that pakistani leadership at large and especially then military leadership what enraged by the conclusions of the pentagon investigation. but more of the world's news now and first to japan where the scale of the accident she with nuclear plant is being blamed on a lack of preparedness and response it is a new government study found the plant's operators did not you probably have to support the impact of a massive tsunami that struck in march the facility was severely damaged in the disaster. four reactors of the cooling systems fai

forces knew they were opening fire on pakistani forces and even apologized but. why would the u.s. and nato knowingly target their allies and get themselves into this squabble of the first place best for size so i consider this friendly fire ax and there's no reason why any nato would do this deliberately so. right i just i mean you know we know from these kind of conflicts the confusion that arises i mean the americans have killed a number of british soldiers in iraq and so on these these incidents happen all the time we even killed one of our more famous football players in in one of the incidents earlier which has been called a bit of a scandal that there was covered up so friendly fire killed a lot of people americans and made a fall and they may have members and pakistanis now we obviously want to avoid this and so thinking about how did they have a better mechanism for engaging in rules of engagement along the border makes a lot of sense but of course the problem is that the insurgents the taliban. is fighting afghanistan they also have bases and operations in pakistan so the

sovereignty has been written by the united states is not the first time the pakistani citizens united states and its allies it seems to be the case now the united states regards pakistan as a kind of free fire zone in which. to abuse the country from three with no need for a poet your address nido has called the incident tragic and an intended promising to investigate the killings the pakistani government has demanded the u.s. viki in air base used for drone attacks it's also closed a vital u.s. military supply route to afghanistan a third to half of all supplies that go to the nato forces go through pakistan so this is going to have a major impact there's no question about it the biggest rift between the two countries came six months ago when the u.s. violated pakistani sovereignty to assassinate osama bin ladin we've lost perspective because people now fear the united states because we're like a drunken person will go to war anywhere if you threaten us but now stands prime minister has come out and said there would be no more business as usual with washington there are two clear cho