that's what paliantier has done. maria: are the bad actors an obvious group? where are they?> i don't think it's an obvious group. we would have probably tracked them down. one of the challenges with cybersecurity is that it's -- there is something about it where it's very asymmetric. in most forms of defense, military technologies, the defense side is pretty good. but in cybersecurity, it's very hard to defend. it's very easy to attack, and so if you have something where it's incredibly easy to attack, incredibly hard to defend, that creates some very unusual challenges, and i think we haven't quite figured out what to do about them, we certainly are not able to defend as well as we can, we're not willing to take the precautions that are needed and it really calls out for some big -- a lot more work in the decade ahead. people's intuitions are shaped by their everyday experience where there's more of a balance between attack and defense. in the world of cyber, there's no balance at all. attack is super easy, defense is super hard. maria: my thanks to peter thiel. don't go an