panetta has this view, general jones. you look at it and some people are going to say, as the white house has said, this shows a very determined, focused president. other people are reading it and saying, well, he really isn't all in on this war. he does not have that kind of will to win. he's not out there saying, yes, we can as he did in his own campaign. >> mike, talking about general powell, i thought it so interesting as i was reading the book and at times getting distressed by how functional this process was that general powell would make these guest appearances. and every time we did it was like a grown-up walked into the room. there was another time where he said we don't have to listen to the far left and give them nothing. and you don't have to listen to the far right and give him everything. your commander in chief. and he said, and don't listen to the media. take your time. time and time again, colin powell will win in there and sort of at least reminded me what a grown-up looks like when walking through this

i mean, ronald reagan brought in howard baker, bill clinton brought in leon panetta and these things happen. >> bret: looking at the polls now and the mid term we don't know the full extent of it and looking at the insiders. how do you see that message being sent? >> well i think that if a lot of democrats think it would be a good thing if the white house did reach out to somebody outside, somebody who could be a real surrogate. don't forget for some reason and i've never figured this out. president obama has great foreign policy surrogates, hillary clinton, bob gates, people can go out and talk for him and they're big heavy weight people, but that's not true on the domestic side. there never has been someone who could be a real surrogate for him. those three guys as talented and competent as they are you put on the screen are not surrogates for him. now, i don't think that the three outsiders you put up are seriously in the running either, but i think a lot of democrats would like the president to look outside at someone who could reach out to the business community, to the hill. it

that was part of leon panetta. that worked but more so after the midterm election campaign when the president had no choice but to deal with newt gipg rich, to deal with the republican senate. they negotiated the balanced budget agreement, welfare reform. many would say president clinton, it was a better presidency for him politically left him in great standing to run for re-election. why doesn't this president view the post election dynamics. >> bring in someone like a leon panetta or a erskine -- >> they don't want to do it again. stay away. this is a back-breaking job. we talk about the hours we put in. it's nothing compared to the chief of staff. rahm emmanuel is known for getting up at 4:00, working out, getting to the white house at 5:30, 6:00 a.m., you're there 8:00, 9:00, 10:00, you work seven days a week. we talk about the political stories. immigration reform, health care reform. they're dealing with potential terror attacks, getting calls at 2:00 a.m. about national security. people like leon panetta who

there's no slow news day anymore. >> leon panetta is quoted as saying this is a crazy kind of war. >> a crazy kind of world. >> it's a crazy kind of world. exactly. >> we all know and you all know this when we were at the white house recently, obama walks into the room with a stride. very self-confident guy. what does he worry about? >> he told me that. he just kind of volunteered. he said my number one worry, the thing i'm worried about is terrorists setting off a nuclear weapon in an american city. and that would be a game changer. turns out at this time last spring they conducted a secret exercise in the white house called the continuity of operation exercise. what would they do in the government if this happened. and in the exercise scenario, terrorists set off a nuke in indianapolis, indiana, and thousands of people were killed and they deal with how the government handles it. the problem is in the exercise they never talk about what the media does, what the public does, what the congress does. now, if something like that happened, god forbid, the media's going to go crazy, congr

to attack -- >> bill: does obama trust panetta? >> yeah, i think he does. >> bill: does he rely on him? >> i think he's very serious advisor in all of this. now, you have to separate the war on terror and al-qaeda, which is the core goal in obama's strategy and in his head from the afghan war. >> bill: there is only one problem with that. that al-qaeda and the taliban are merged together, that if the taliban emerges victorious, than al-qaeda comes back to the sanctuary it had pre9-11. >> that could happen. but we have so many troops in the book, i lay out this new secret army the c.i.a. has. 3,000 man army that. is a potent force, very best trained afghans under the control of the c.i.a. with all the intelligence gathering apparatus, all the troops we have here. >> bill: but we're not cutting them down yet. i think we will. last question, obama really -- you left it at the end of the book where he wasn't that thrilled with you. he just said hey, bob, we'll see you around. >> yeah. he said -- started the interview, you're on the clo

somebody the president will turn to. >> panetta loves washington.ve and axelrod. they don't know how washington runs and it would be like getting a commodities trader from chicago coming in to run goldman sachs. >> the hill loves panetta. unclear whether panetta would want to go for another tour of duty although if the president asks, one tends to step up. the president is looking at this very much not just one staff decision, one at a time but chess board and moving puzzle pieces. decent likelihood you will have a new national security advisor. an if they elevate someone who is chief of staff, there are all these moving pieces. >> george, can you explain how important it is you have somebody in the white house that understands how washington works? >> fundamental. we have run into a number of glitches because of absence of knowledge and understanding how the congress and house and senate and various leaderships work together. how people in fact can work with some republican leaderships. if that's missed and not timely, it doesn't work. >> r rahm kn

if he's replaced with a panetta or posada i think you'll see someone of stature go in there and that will be another leveling influence but basically they need another rahm. >> paul, what about -- what is going on behind the scenes at the white house? is there an exodus? you have david axelrod will be leaving to start to run campaigns. you know, we've had other high-profile people leaving. summers is leaving. what's going on? mean, is this just a normal course of events? >> absolutely. >> or a cleaning of house? >> the average tenure of a senior white house official is 18 months and we're past that mark already. it's always the case at two years people turn around, and i think it's very good. it's good for this white house or for any white house. i think this president has a terrific team. there's plenty more people. even hoe i said ron is the indispensable man. i thought what charles de gaulle said about his aides. the graveyard is filled with indispensable men. all of us who have served the president do so at a brief time and at his pleasure. >> i want to bring in john king who is

today, the pakistani prime minister pressed the issue with the visiting cia director leon panetta. another official wondered whether the west was an ally or an enemy. >> are you fighting a war or are you in war together? >> reporter: the pakistani partnership is vital to the war effort. since 2001, the united states has given pakistan's military more than $10 billion to help it fight insurgents. fueling tensions between the two nations, cell phone video has surfaced purporting to show pakistani soldiers killing blind folded civilians. today, military officials told nbc news they're investigating and suggested the videos were staged to discredit them. tonight, nato officials say that borderrossing would have to be closed for some time before troops begin to feel the pinch. but one told me they are actively lking for a way to bypassakistan with those supplies all together. brian? >> john yang at our nbc news bureau in kabul tonight. john, thanks. >>> grim story in the news today in this country for the fourth time in the last few weeks, a teenager has taken his own life after being t

it's, you have to get panetta is quoted in the book as saying, you need boots on the ground.ething with the safe havens, a touchdown president, himself, s -- and the president, himself, says at the secret meetings that pakistan is the cancer. >> stay tuned for more of this conversation with bob woodward as he shares more information on the obama white house. we will have more of the interview. >>> and the fast food giant mcdonalds is considering important choices about health coverage for tens of thousands of workers. stay with us here in "the situation room." driving home nails quickly and easily in the tightest spaces. more innovation, more great values. craftsman. trust. in your hands. this chicken tortilla soup has such a wonderful zesty quality. that's the chipotle and cilantro. it's one of our new mexican soups. it reminds me of guadalajara. a special man. his delicious soups. sheila? [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. hostcould switching gei his delicious soups. real a bd in the hd or more worth 2 inhe bush?eila? praiser: well you rarely see them

you know what made sense from leon panetta, why are you in the c.i.a. and he was a republican for a while and he transferred over. a lot of republicans had nice things to say to him. >> politico says "the only names seriously considered to replace rahm are three guys in the white house. one of them is the former chief of staff when he worked with obama, pete rous. bob beckle said on the air that's the guy he heard was going to get it and an aide to joe biden and the outsiders include panetta and tom daschle and john podesta. >> i wouldn't rule out that rahm is not going to run for mayor of chicago. keep in mind that he moved his entire family just recently to washington, d.c., just the start of this school year so then he would have to return everyone to chicago unless they stay in d.c. and he does this again. >> i bet he runs. >> maybe. i think he has aspirations for other secretary posts within the administration. i don't know. we'll have to see what happens on friday. >> we know what's happening today. the president of the united states is going to s

and leon panetta, and, also, national security advisor is a name that is said to be on the short listat least at this stage. >>shepard: as an observer of the process and realizing where the deficiencies seem to lie, what would you think with be the biggest task to write this white house, to get back some of the narrative as it runs? >>guest: well that is a good question. that probably falls more in the communications job than with the chief of staff. there are signs that robert gibbs will move out and that would leave the communications post open. in the press room. chief of staff, rahm emanuel is a hard charger, a guy up there, on the hill, on the phone all the time, abrasive and did not take people's feel evening -- feelings into account. >>shepard: pressure, pressure, pressure. >>guest: that could be something looking ahead, depending on what happens with the election if the administration wants to take more of a conciliatory tone toward the hill, they would look for someone who is the opposite of rahm emanuel in that regard. >>shepard: thank you, tom. now the budget over marijuana

then the other two names, john poddesta and leon panetta.hey're happy where they are, but the significant is poddesta and panetta both chief of staffs could be very well suited to come and help the obama white house if dealing with a republican congress. a lot depends on what happens in these elections, whether the president has to get somebody to deal with a republican congress or not, depending on what happens in the elections. that's why pete rouse is seen as t the bridge to those elections. >> ed henry, our senior white house correspondent with the stakeout. >>> time for cnn equals politics update. let's check in with dana bash. what's crossing the ticker right now? >> reporter: you know congress is getting ready to get out of dodge, meaning leave the session in order to go home and campaign for the election. before they do, some conservative senators are trying to make sure that nothing gets passed that's controversial without a debate or a reported vote. it's a little known fact before congress leaves they do tend to pass a whole lot o

another, john podesta and then leon panetta. he's a former clinton chief of staff. tap someone who certainly knows what the job is and also knows a thing or two about dealing with republicans in charge of congress if that turns out to be the case after november. >> how concerned is the white house from the things being said with needing someone who is not as divisive. it's more than that he's wearing sho many hathats. >> well, the republicans may dispute that. >> exactly. but a lot of democrats around town have talked about emanuel wearing a lot of hats. he was a former clinton political director. often speaks to the press. the white house may be looking for someone who can make the trains run on time and be more focused on that. you raise an interesting point. the next chief of staff, if republicans do take back the house, that chief of staff will have to work with republicans and have a good working relationship with them. >> mark murray, nbc political director. thank you. good to see you. michael sneed is reporting rahm emanuel may not be table to live in his own

know, over the summer we heard the chairman of the joint chiefs, admiral mike mullen, we heard leon panetta director of the cia, all say the same thing which is the sanctions may help give the united states some leverage, but it's not going to -- the sanctions alone will not force the iranian government, they believe to fundamentally reassess the value of the nuclear program. there are some who think it might lead them to speed up the nuclear program. >> the other point here is that recent reporting is that the iranians may have had some technical challenges, let's say, and that there may be more time and that the americanses may have persuaded the israelis, for instance that there is more time, at least nine months to a year before there is a real -- a real issue that needs to be confronted or should be confronted from their perspective. david, thank you very much. we'll be watching all of this up close at the united nations next week when there will be a major speech, of course, from the president, hillary clinton, and all of the members of the countries that are negotiating with iran or

tom daschle, and tom donnelin and john padesto and leon panetta.by a couple of chiefs of staff and now cia director. these are able people. we talk about washington all the time. the truth is, staff comes and staff goes. as a staffer, i prided myself in knowing the difference between the organ grinder and the monkey. these staff monkeys come and go. >> anderson, this is really an important moment for the president because he's had to deal with an unruly democratic congress. nothing worse than success in washington and he's had to placate a congress that is led by democrats that are really farther to the left than mainstream of the country. that may change in november. we'll wait and see. but, if indeed republicans capture the house the president has a chance to start over and start fresh with a new chief of staff that can work with both sides of the aisle. and that will be one of the tests, i think, that people look and see, who does he appoint? >> alex, stay with us. we'll come back to you. john king, appreciate the reporting. >>> now our "keeping

cia agent, but you should not raise your han put yourself in the shoes of the cia, director leon panetta. what dyou do? how do you go forward? what do tell your agent? to those who advocate water boarding, is it a violation of the geneva conventn? yes. ask any military lawyer if water boarding violates that the articles that are written to protect enemy prisoners from abuse. this is not even an honest debate on the military side. does it violate the war crimes act that i helped write? yes, it does. does it violate the convention against torture, which has now been codified in terms of the criminal cents? yes, it does. can we be safe without engaging in water boarding? yes, we can. but it has got to be something other than the army field manual. another question for thought. should the united states abandon the geneva convention? it now applies to the war on terror because our supreme court has ruled so. and to those who keep advocating techniques like water boarding, have the courage of your convictions to say that we intend by our actions to withdraw this nation from the geneva conventi

. >> another name to put on the list, although i don't know how likely it is is leon panetta. the director of the cia. a former chief of staff. knows washington inside and out. but very happy at cia director. >> that's a tough gig to give up, but i have heard through the grapevine, she one of those if the president asks, he'll do whatever the president asks. >> so that will be the speculation through the next couple of days. >>> all eyes are on the governors race in california. and the first debate between candidates meg whitman and jerry brown tonight. she is of course, the ebay exec who spent millions of her own fort town win. he's the longtime politician who is a household name in california. mark murray is nbc news's deputy political director. so this is the first chance we get to see these candidates in action in a debate. >> absolutely is avanna. the california governors race is shaping up to be one of the most competitive and contrasting races this entire cycle. on the one hand you have former california governor jerry brown who has held almost every elective political

director leon panetta in islamabad. gilani said he was profoundly concerned about a recent surge in drone and helicopter strikes. nato and u.s. officials said they were investigating today's incident. but they maintained a special agreement allows for and justifies hot pursuit of attacking militants across the pakistan afghanistan border. five nato troops were killed in southern afghanistan today. three died when a homemade bomb exploded. the others were killed in separate attacks. nato did not give their nationalities. meanwhile, the u.n. reported afghanistan's opium production fell by half this year. disease heavily damaged the poppy fields. former president jimmy carter has been released from a hospital in cleveland. he left today after recovering from a viral infection. the former president was taken ill tuesday during a flight from atlanta. he'd been traveling to promote his new book, "white house diary". toy maker fisher-price issued a host of recalls today over safety concerns. the list includes seven million tod

the current cia director, leon panetta, is quoted saying, we have to get boots on the ground. we have to get in there, with the safe havens are that are harboring al qaeda, that are targeting not just europe, but the united states. >> that's something the pakistanis have been reluctant to give any approval to. >> it's kind of a wink and a nod. we're clearly at the point where we're going to go ahead and do it because the madness of conducting the war where literally, the taliban has safe haven in pakistan and there is always aerial surveillance showing trucks of fighters, taliban insurgent fighters, going from pakistan, where they rest and rearm themselves, being waved into afghanistan, through pakistani checkpoints. and what are they doing? they're going into afghanistan to kill american soldiers. >> you mentioned rahm emanuel. likely, he'll leave by the end of the week. in "obama's wars" he's clearly a big player in the war councils. doubtful this war can succeed in afghanistan. >> he's the skeptic. he says afghanistan is political fly paper. you get stuck to it. you can't g

white house chief of staff like john podesta, alex, for example, who worked for bill clinton or leon panetta's now the cia director who worked for bill clinton. what do you think of that idea? >> both well respected, both serious people. i think they'd have a lot of support from that on both sides of the aisle. ultimately, you're right, he's got to have somebody who he's comfortable with. the president lost his mojo when he inherited this congress. there was an inspiring barack obama than he has become. he's going to be rid of this ball and chain in november. he's going to be able to say, you know, america sent me a left of center congress and now they sent me a right of center congress and i'm going to work pragmatically with them. so either of those two gentlemen or someone else in the rahm emmanuel mode will help him. >> another name, tom daschle, the former senate majority leader who is now in private practice in washington, d.c. at one point, he was going to be the health and human services secretary, that didn't work out because of tax related issues involving a car and a driver. you r

and may be announced as early as friday and are looking at a couple of names who popped up, leon panettaom daschle, among those, insiders, into the president's circle. what do you make of all of that? >> i think it will be telling, martha, if rahm emanuel leaves as he is expected to. the person the president selects, this is a president who is going to suffer severe losses in his party and congress. and, he's going to be faced with an entirely different political landscape than he had when he came in and the question is can he adapt as bill clinton so adroitly did after his loss of the congress in -- party lost the congress in 1994, clinton moved expeditiously and deftly to the center, and governed from the center from then on to the and handily was reelected and so on, we all know the story and the question. martha: can this president, whose politics i think are distinctly to the left, of president clinton's policies, across the scope of his career, can he do the same and will he do the same and the choice of chief of staff will tell us a lot. whether he's going to try to do that. marth

one more note about those drones, cia boss leon panetta is in pakistan this week and he is quoted as saying they are getting 100 percent results, those strikes, and they will continue. jenna: definitely a developing story, greg. we certainly are covering it. how have the governments over there in europe reacted to this threat? >> carefully, but with a strong sense of security. officials of the countries targeted in that will include the u.k., france, germany, are downplaying the imminent attack but clearly paying attention, especially because some reports actually say that there are some al-qaeda cells already based in europe that could be activated by those involved with the plot, paris remains on high alert, but officials there we talked to say they're worried about yet another al-qaeda faction, one based in north africa, and there are also reports the security presence in london has been beefed up in the past 36 hours or so, especially at a tourist -- at tourist locations where foreigners find americans to be present. the train station we're told was evacuated yesterday. clearly a

put yourself in the shoes of the cia, director leon panetta. what do you do? how do you go forward? what do tell your agent? to those who advocate water boarding, is it a violation of the geneva convention? yes. ask any military lawyer if water boarding violates that the articles that are written to protect enemy prisoners from abuse. this is not even an honest debate on the military side. does it violate the war crimes act that i helped write? yes, it does. does it violate the convention against torture, which has now been codified in terms of the criminal cents? yes, it does. can we be safe without engaging in water boarding? yes, we can. but it has got to be something other than the army field manual. another question for thought. should the united states abandon the geneva convention? it now applies to the war on terror because our supreme court has ruled so. and to those who keep advocating techniques like water boarding, have the courage of your convictions to say that we intend by our actions to withdraw this nation from the geneva convention. because that exactly is what you

it says inside the white house, according to administration officials -- cia director panetta, admiral mike mullen, richard holbrooke and a long roster of top officials. the president's interview was on the record and lasted about an hour. let's go to richmond, virginia. german -- jeremy on the democrats' line. caller: the book is probably an excellent account. but sadly, i wish the president had followed through on his initial thoughts in the campaign that both iraq was a mistake. i know he had been after osama bin laden. but what we are locked into is, we are in occupations. we were in iraq and we are now in afghanistan. a civil war between one group of people will have an idea of how they want to run the country and another group of people who are different. the taliban, we have backed unfortunately in american policies, is it dictators. in afghanistan we back the war lords. when the taliban were in charge i remember suppress the heroin trade, the warlords were no longer able to have private armies. today we back the corrupt area. during world war ii when we went to italy, mussolini

put yourself in the shoes of the cia, director leon panetta. what do you do? how do you go forward?t do tell your agent? to those who advocate water boarding, is it a violation of the geneva convention? yes. ask any military lawyer if water boarding violates that the articles that are written to protect enemy prisoners from abuse. this is not even an honest debate on the military side. does it violate the war crimes act that i helped write? yes, it does. does it violate the convention against torture, which has now been codified in terms of the criminal cents? yes, it does. can we be safe without engaging in water boarding? yes, we can. but it has got to be something other than the army field manual. another question for thought. should the united states abandon the geneva convention? it now applies to the war on terror because our supreme court hasuled so. and to those who keep advocating techniques like water boarding, have the courage of your convictions to say that we intend by our actions to withdraw this naon from the geneva convention. because that exactly is what you will ha

it says inside the white house, according to administrati officials -- cia director panetta, admiral mike mullen, richard holbrooke and a long roster of top officials. the president's interview was on the record and lasted about an hour. let's go to richmond, virginia. german -- jeremy on the democrats' line. caller: the book is probably an excellent account. but sadly, i wish the president had followed through on his initial thoughts in the campaign that both iraq was a mistake. i know he had been after osama bin laden. but what we are locked into is, we are in occupations. we were in iraq and we are now in afghanistan. a civil war between one group of people will have an idea of how they want to run the country and another group of people who are different. the taliban, we have backed unfortunately in american policies, is it dictators. in afghanistan we back the war lords. when the taliban were in charge i remember suppress the heroin trade, the warlords were no longer able to hav private armies. today we back the corrupt area. during world war ii when we went to italy, mussolini