shape the party. much more focused on those types of principles. >> the very liberal members back then, what we would call progress is today, what was your critique? >> many choice words. probably censored on c-span. being really frustrated. a southern boy's network. primarily white southernri men. the democratic leisure class. it was this idea that it was trying to promote more upper-middle-class and upper-class corporate interests and not relay standing for what the democratic party was. there was a fearful thought it was trying to marginalize labor from having a say, but also other marginalized groups. instead off a strategy of trying to win elections and having policy that focused on extending the dates within marginalized communities. it was focused on these efforts to tailor policy towards upper-middle-class suburban voter. >> what was their response to the electoral success that they saw in the 1990s. >> this becomes really challenging. especially in 1992 when bill clinton runs. after having bo

i think they pertain to the democratic party. don thank you very much book tv has covered both of those books peter schweikert and miranda devine and miranda devine has aired already peter schweikert has not aired yet, but will be airing in the near future. so thank you for that advice. we appreciate it mary astoria, ohio mary you're on with author lily geisler. we're talking about the future of the democratic party. yes very from foster, ohio. i wonder if you could tell me a little bit about. some mary you gotta turn down that tv and just talk in phone. we're listening. thank you. okay, i'll turn it down. i mean, okay. so um, i i mentioned that i was a republican so i was probably about 60, but i i learned my parents to observe and to analyze politics and these news that today just want to win. and i wonder if you could come in on that because it's really important that the both parties because of what they can and not try to each other out. and well, i think there are two two parts of that. i mean one is an issue of what happen

, i think there should be five parties or seven parties. if we had that we have shiftingcoalitions just like our founding fathers . our founding fathers would be horrified by the fact that we have these two parties that are going to clash until we're all in a country that we're not going to be able to recognize. it's the fourth party dies it's going to be because the dynamic did not change that even though 62 percent of americans now want a third party and think that both parties are out of touch and the duopoly managed to keep the mechanics sustained to suppress the will of the american people. to our collective detriment really to our collective row and eventually . >> shouldamericans be able to vote online austin mark . >> we should be able to vote online. we managed a lot of our other affairs online. is the technology ready for prime time at that scale western mark it's not. if we were to run pilots would we want to have redundancies including paper? yes we would but we try to try to make it easier to vote so that if because now it's 20

the democratic party was looking to change >> the democratic party was looking to change. how did it change? >> one of the key ways that changed going forward the 1984 election and landslide is a wake-up call in the group of democrats come to them from a couple cases, one is a group of congress and another is moderate democraticic governors especialy from the south like in virginia who sees the party needs to shift in that direction and they form with the democratic leadership council. >> what did it stand for? >> the dlc was the idea that free markets as a market oriented approach was the best means to bring about opportunity for people so one of the things i argued in my book is the dlc believes in using private sector means to achieve the vocals so the democrats, traditional ideas that you need to help people and create quality they want new means to do that. they believe the democratic party is beholden to special interest groups especially the labor movement and move the economy away from manufacturing -based economy, union oriented economy but democrat party away fro

the democratic party is looking to change and how did it change? >> there been discussions going forward in this landslide defeat in the wake up call and a group of democrats come together from a couple like this one is from congress and another group from moderate democratic governors especially from the south like chuck rob of virginia who sees the party needed to shift the direction and form the democratic leadership council. >> and what did the dlc stand for? >> it was believed in the idea that is a market oriented approach is the best means to bring about opportunity. one of the things i argue in my book is that the dlc believed in using sort of private sector meanso to achieve traditional liberal goals. they still believe in traditional ideas that we need to help people create equality but they want new means to do that. they also believe the democratic party has become too beholden to special interest groups so they wanted to move both the economy away from the manufacturing-based economy that would be more union oriented and the democratic

one country, one president, one future and the liberal democratic party as a party that has always beened on the interests of every person in every family on the common sense of the old approach today calls to unite around common sense around approaches aimed at the harmonious progressive development of the country. do not look for artificial contradictions, criticize those who work incorrectly and slowly and do not fulfill the strategic guidelines of the country's leadership, aimed at improving the lives of people in these very difficult conditions, but they are looking for artificial contradictions between parties. we criticize those who today do not understand that it is necessary to rally and unite. one side one president one future today ldpr rating it grows precisely because we do not deviate from our principles. we survived the tragedy, terrible for each of us, of the death of our leader , father, the founder of the party, vladimir volfovich zhirinovsky, on april 6. but we did not violate any of his principles, none of his programmatic approaches. the ldpr was and remains the par

you can't say, one party became a liberal party, the other became the conservative. the liberal party has more people of color in it, ok. now we have polarization. that happens in a historical context. i think i spent most my time talking about that, but i want to say something about the presidency. the modern presidency is conceptualized and includable science as being antithetical to parties. in 2008, richard skinner wrote an article about artists and presidency that argues that that is over. now, presidents are dependent on their supporters in the electorate, and their own partisan in congress. they disagree about things. i taught a course on the 21st century presidency, and i thought it was a real evan -- evolution from george w. bush to trump and what i call the hyper partisanship. essentially, partisanship not as an issue disagreement, but as teams. way that shapes the presidency. the way in which congressional republicans will not hand away into a democratic president, though i don't think that is an entirely one-sided thing. it is asymmetrical. it shows somet

a third party and think both parties are out of touch, the duopoly to suppress the will of the americaneople. to the point of detriment. >> should americans be able to vote online? >> we should be able to vote online and we manage a lot of our other affairs online. is the technology ready for prime time at that scale, no it's not. ift. we were ready to run pilots but we on the redundancy and we should try to make it a little easier for both because 2021 if we made it easier [inaudible] >> i agree. it would take a lot of blowback for this and my position is -- >> that's why we get along. i do want to point out i think it's a problem the leadership in the country has been at it for 25, 30 years and they don't understand technology the way they should. i think we should have term limits for this reason. americans agree with that. i bet he probably agrees with it. >> as someone who ran against a 40 year incumbent it was the open primary in california at the top two system and independent redistricting i saw the good government as the term limit because it gave a guy lik me a shot to win and

the forward party or another party in the country.ltimately, when it comes down to it, competition of ideas is a good thing. it is good for voters to have choices. we do not owe the two major parties anything. now there's a different part of that question which may be part of what you're getting at. which is good to forward party accidentally empower extremists? we are being very careful about making sure that we are not in this cycle -- that we are being very strategic about where we focus our efforts and we are not engaging in efforts where we think there's any risk that a political extremist or autocrat candidate might be helped by the forward party accidentally. we are a group of very seasoned political operatives and strategies. with policy blogs. trust me, we are aware of the landscape. but in terms of the we will take votes from other parties, down the road, i hope so. because i think voters should be able to maximize their expression of individual preferences at the ballot box. >> before you go, lucy, who and when will a forwa

are seven parties. we have 15 coalitions just like our founding fathers envisioned. our founding fathers if they woke up today they would be shocked and horrified by the fact that we have two parties that clash and we are in a country where we'll be able to recognize the word. if the forward party dies it's going t to be because the dynac did not change and even though 52% of americans want a third-party and think both parties are out of touch we could keep the mechanics to our collective ruin eventually. >> host: should americans be about bothur on line? >> guest: eventually we should able to vote on line. we manage a lot of our other affairs on line and its technology ready for prime-time at that scale? no it's not. would we want towe have redunday and like paper yesterday with that we should make it easier to vote. if we had made iti easier and 2021 more people would be voting. >> host: i agree and i take a lot of blowback for this. >> guest: that's why you and i get along eric. our generation pushes

we will follow the fortunes of the board party. —— forward party. —— forward party. and execution of the 9/11 attacks. then, he was described as bin laden's number two. this was months in the planning. joe biden was serving as president obama's vice president — when bin laden was killed. and this was the ops room this weekend. he was kept fully informed throughout. in fact, so in depth was the planning he was presented with a scale model of the building they would attack. it is a morale boosting victory for the 9/11 families — a huge political win for the embattled us president. in the last hour, we heard from the white house, who said this strike was an example of the america's continuing, counter—terrorism capabilities. president biden has said we will not allow afghanistan to bring a safe haven for terrorists who might bring harm to american homeland we met that this action demonstrates without american in harm's way we still remain able to identify and locate even the worlds most wanted terrorist and take the action to remove him from the battlefield. the bbc has

i think he has reinvigorated the whole party. i think his populism is a good thing, even though the media tries to paint it as a bad thing. i think he has given us pride in our country again and given us a lot of things to think about that we were not even aware of. so i think that his comments are debated by right and left, and it gives us a chance to think about what we need to work on as a nation. host: why do you think dr. oz was a mistake in the pennsylvania senate race? caller: well, i think he was pushing vaccine mandates, and i do not think that is a really popular stance. i do not think that is something trump has ever been for. mainly that. host: is there any other mistakes you would point to? caller: that is enough for me regarding dr. oz. i do not think that in america we should be pushing anybody to have any kind of experimental vaccine. but any radical treatment, i think that is an individual choice. -- any medical treatment, i think that is an individual choice. host: elizabeth out of austin, texas, republican who

and here we are, somewhere, we started party building , new parties will appear.ally , new centers of power will be created. naturally , society will be structured around these parties, people will be mobilized, and so on. that is, when it is necessary to unite. we seem to be starting the process of some kind of separation, but this is how our supporters will criticize us, and they will be right, on the other hand. sides. we will be criticized if we go this way and adopt these two laws that we are not democratic enough. we are creating some kind of special system previously or hitherto unknown in the world of the political system of society. in general, here is to criticize for insufficient radicalism, but i will tell her from the fact that we promised we at one time, then the adoption of the constitution and the constitution reflected this we promised our society that we will solve the issues, we promised we must implement the draft law on civil society, that even before this meeting, it was proposed that only members of the trade union party or public associatio

they need to bring on the libertarian party or something like that, because in the republican party, [inaudible] now, i will tell you what makes america great. they are not republicans, they are democrats. millions of conservative democrats now support donald trump, and i am proud to be one of them. now, they refer to him as 45 -- how about 45 and 47, twice impeached? you will go down in the record books. host: jay in mississippi. guest: well, i don't think we need to join the libertarian party, but the caller is making a point about what i think change in the republican party, per--many people previously identified as democrats, maybe they were union members that were economically democrats, but then a lot of those people, they are culturally more maga and have moved white, working-class voters to support donald trump. that is a big part of his base. they find the message that he is selling, the cultural grievance, the idea that he was going to build a wall, which again is false, he cannot do that -- they find that appealing. he has been able to put together a pretty large coalition

which is why the forward party is growing so quickly. tens of thousands of americans have signed up in all 50 states because we know that the two-party system is getting worse, not better. we need something new. >> and who is going to be bank rolling the forward party? will you pledge to be very up front and candid and transparent about where your money comes from? >> yeah, it's transparent for all to see. and the people that are bank rolling us are everyday americans who are sending, $10, $20, $30 because there's such a tremendous appetite for change. >> any corporate money coming in? outside money? foreign money? >> it's transparent for all to see. i can say our money has not been coming in from corporations. it's been coming in from everyday americans who want something better. >> and you'll pledge to put that on a website or a news organization comes to you and says we'd like to see this information, will you pledge to make that information available? >> well, jim, i'm going to actually tell you we don't have a choice. we have to fil

but we end up having as multiple parties within the party. we have factions that are kind of like what they would be, parties and other countries but they have to grouped together under the label of one party to have a shot. host: we would like to thank henry olsen, senior fellow at the ethics and public policy center and washington post columnist. thank you for walking us through campaign 2022 and 2024. guest: thank you for having me. host: coming up next, we will get another perspective on the path forward for democrats heading to the midterms with bill press, host of the -- host of "the bill press pod" an author of "from the left: a life in the crossfire." we will be right back. ♪ >> middle and high school students, it is your time to shine. participate in this year's c-span studentcam documentary competition. picture yourself as a newly elected member of congress. we ask this >> make a 5-6 minute video that shows the issue from opposing ad supporting perspectives. don't be afraid to take risks. be bold. amongst the $100,000 in cash prizes

and here we are, somewhere, we started party building , new parties will appear.aturally, new centers of power will be created. naturally , society will be structured around these parties , people will be mobilized, and so on. that is, when it is necessary to unite, we seem to begin the process of some kind of separation, but this is how our supporters will criticize us, and they will be right, on the other hand. we will be criticized if we go this way and let's accept these two laws that we are not democratic enough. we are creating some special system earlier or adding to the well-known political system of society in the world. in general, here is to criticize for insufficient radicalism, but i will tell her from the fact that we promised we at one time, then the adoption of the constitution and the constitution reflected this we promised our society that we will solve the issues, we promised we must implement the draft law on civil society that offered even before this meeting what to call civil only members of the party of trade unions or public associations c

no come or to be a member of a political party when that party really doesn't want you any more. that is the reality for former german chancellor. gerhard schroeder, his party, germany central, left social democratic party has ruled. there are no legal grounds to expel him. the former chancellor has been criticized for his ties to russia. gear had showed her there isn't going anywhere just yet. 17 chapters of his own party, the social democrats, had filed motions to expel him. but an arbitration commission decided there are no grounds to banish or even to reprimand. sure, though, it declared that his close ties to russian president vladimir putin and his rules working for russian energy giant scottsbroom and the ro sniffed, did not break party rules. should those links to moscow and his failure to condemn levy made putin after his invasion of ukraine, caused an uproar within the party. but the decision not to expel him was purely procedural expelling. a person from a party in germany has pretty high hurdles and is basically a judicial argument. while his position politically is t

context of a diverse coalition party? >> well, since i'm a firm believer that our country does better with two parties, a center left and a center right, i believe we have to have that party back again. whether it comes under the banner of republican party as we know it, as it's defined today -- which is not a party, it's a cult -- or not, is something else. it may be time for another party to come forward, more centrist, to balance things, certainly, better than -- for the first time in our history, 50% of registered voters are registered independent. that's never happened before, and that should tell both parties that they're not appealing to the majority of the american people because they each are only about 25%. so i think we're going to see some changes coming in the future. but i do believe we need -- we do better with two parties. we're not a country set up for multi-party governance, certainly at the federal level. we're not a parliamentary system. and so i'd like to see a center right and a center left, and i'll

it enlarge the party. and that creates challenges when you're trying to put together a majority vote for a party that stands socialist like asa with conservative democrats like joe manchin. who collectively have once again, which is a -- donald trump in that one thing was very significant when to achieve that one thing a that what's next? that gets to the heart of biden trying to forge consensus and the party and you see that immediately after his election the chapter they were alluding to he's putting together his government and biden is trying to satisfy this diversion party is extremely ever more interested and organized by identity. so g he puts together cabinet wh potentially a gop held senate would have to confirm all these nominees and with that in mind also please the democratic roots. this is difficult. it's a real puzzle and you see it when he is trying to figure out who should be secretary of health and human services. somebody a happen do it at the caucus is giving my staff real grief over the

he was a third party candidate, james barney the abolitionist of slavery party.hey might otherwise have gone to clay. polk came very close to losing the election. what's interesting is, this is when the annexation of texas was on the national agenda. john tyler had introduced. it poke, being a protegee of andrew jackson, being a southern democrat, was in favor of annexing texas. they want to more safe territory in the country. henry clay, even though he was from kentucky he was more northern in his sensibilities, he did not want to annex texas. he came out and said, texas is going to be settled by our race, they will have similar customs to us. they will speak english, they're gonna be good neighbors but they are gonna be their own country. if clay had won the election it was at least possible -- no one knows with history, but it is possible to texas would never have been annexed. certainly that there would never have been the mexican american war. it was the annexation of texas, and polk put troops in west texas over the dispute of boundary that the war started.

there used to be the party of a realist party but now it's a party of fairy tales.members only want to be told fairy tales, you need to be a believer not a realist. so rishi sunak, who isjust saying, "look, ithink would be responsible, there is inflation so therefore i will lower tax. he seen as a socialist, seen as a hard realist and all they want is liz truss to say, i will lower taxes. but they also want something in the opposite. they want more investment in public services, lower taxes. more help with fuel bills or things like that. boris johnson called it cakeism, i believe! having your cake and eating it. it's really sad. listening to you both, i think oh, i'm a bit ashamed actually that we should be having a leadership contest like this for a major party. it is actually disastrous for the conservative party to be on display like this, taking lumps out of each other in a totally unrealistic way. this is not the best of the conservative party. the conservative party is a great party, has a huge history and will revert in time to what it has been. i think a lot

and here we are, somewhere, we started party building , new parties will appear. naturally , new centers of power will be created. naturally , society will be structured around these parties, people will be mobilized, and so on. that is, when it is necessary to unite, we seem to begin the process of some kind of separation, but this is how our supporters will criticize us, and they will be right, on the other hand. we will be criticized if we go this way and adopt these two laws that we are not democratic enough. we we create some special system earlier, or this is all or a political system of society unknown in the world. in general, to criticize for insufficient radicalism, but i will tell her from the fact that we promised we at one time before the adoption of the constitution and in the constitution reflected this we promised our society that we would solve these issues. they promised to fulfill it, it seems that the constitution was adopted at the wrong time , our supporters criticized us for this, that people should not be ready to give it up, they showed th

let's take what we call the democrat party, it began as jefferson's party.ounded, it was alternating we call the republican party, the democrat party, the democrat republicans. potato potato. the question is, we the people are the ultimate sovereigns. we operate through direct and indirect mechanisms. we have voting and representative process is. we use juries. some of the audience members from high school, we had a federalist paper. we wrote an essay about the constitution. it was by james madison. he tried to distinguish republicans and democracies. nobody else did. let me read you a passenger too. this is a quote from the other great founders. this is jon marshall, the chief justice of the united states from the early 19th century. this is our greatest chief justice. here's what he says in the constitutional convention. he says, well, we idolize democracy, we contend for a real well regulated democracy, we believe in a well regulated democracy. this guy is named james wilson. he writes the words, we the people, he is the most prominent lawyer of his time.

host: is orban's party in hungary the minority party? guest: it is not the minority party. it is overwhelmingly in parliament the majority party. host: a few more calls. we will go to illinois, rose on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. you can. of the people all of the time but not all of the people all of the time. when i listened to this man talk, i knew right away he was a leftist liberal. i am tired of calling us a democracy when we are a republic. we are talking about the news in hungary and how it is by these controlled people, freaks or whatever they are. i don't know. i forgot the name he used. but anyway, in america, we have the left controlling our news media. the computers. they are all billionaires that only computernbc, abc. when you listen to one channel, they all mimic the other channels. they are within the democratic party. they are all democrats. they buy off policymakers. they buy off congressman. they buy off the bureaucrats running the different departments. host: we are running short on time. david, she is critical of the news me

there was a third party candidate james bernie of the anti-slavery the abolitionist liberty party who won about 15,000 votes in new york that might otherwise have gone to clay. so pope came very close to losing the election and what's interesting is that this was when the annexation of texas was on the national agenda, john tyler had introduced it and polk being a protege of andrew jackson and being a southern democrat was in favor of annexing texas. they wanted more slave territory in the country and henry clay although he was from kentucky. he was more northern in his sensibilities. he did not want to annex, texas and he he came out and he said, texas is going to be settled by our race. they're gonna have similar customs to us that they're going to speak english. we're going to be good neighbors, but they're going to be their own country. and so if clay had won the election, it's at least possible. i mean, nobody knows with history, but it's possible that texas would never have an annexed and certainly that there were never have been a mexican-american war because it was the annexat

party than on the right. so does the revolution, the trump revolution, eat his children? -- its children? andrew: you thick about pat toomey, -- think about pat toomey, i think he came up in the tea party movement. and look at -- , wash basically forced out ofe the senate because he acknowledged the reality that he would not be able to win the republican primary in arizona in order to keep his seat. in congress today, there are no incentives to work across the aisle, right? and when you think of what the republican conference code it look like next year if mitch mcconnell charge, that means he will have to deal with people who are just like people like josh hawley, for example, right? herschel walker in georgia. j.d. vance, ohio. dr. oz in pennsylvania. people who are going to make life difficult for mitch mcconnell. and, you know, there is an interesting question of how a republican congress is going to interact with president biden, right? we know with the house will do, the house will launch investigations

i have to _ party. that's very optimistic of you, i have to say. _ party.ou, i have to say. i _ party. that's very optimistic of you, i have to say. i don't - party. that's very optimistic of| you, i have to say. i don't think conservative party members aren't representative of the population as a whole, but the system that we have, the problem is the government appears to be in stasis. both the prime minister and the chancellor were on holiday last week when there were on holiday last week when there were significantly bad inflation figures coming out. so as an ordinary voter, ifeel figures coming out. so as an ordinary voter, i feel very frustrated that the government seems to be in limbo until september. by the way, the actions that the prime ministers can take on day one would probably take months for that help to come forward.— to come forward. caroline, you've been waiting _ to come forward. caroline, you've been waiting patiently _ to come forward. caroline, you've been waiting patiently to - to come forward. caroline, you've been waiting patiently t

contrast that response, that mode of partying with the partying of, say, i don't know, elizabeth warrenachusetts. here's her version of partying. >> i'm going to get me, umm, a beer. i'm going to pull up a stool and sit down. >> tucker: so that's the lady that said, they'd vote for me if only i had a penis. no. they'd vote for you only if you had a soul, which you don't. okay. next up, a sad story, a new report from a human rights group called -- called safeguard defenders, says that authorities in china have been forcing political opponents into psychiatric hospitals and torturing them. they've been doing this for at least the past decade, subject to electroshock therapy and forced medications, based on testimony from 99 people over a period of seven years. so to assess the authenticity of this, what it might mean, we're happy to speak to gordon chang, author of "the great china tech war." is this real, do you think? >> this certainly is real, tucker. china's use of psychiatric facilities for political dissidents goes back to the cultural revolution, which started in 1966. the chinese

gender highly associated with party. whether you live in a rural or urban area is more associated with party than it has ever been. it has kind of turbocharged that party identity, and those animosities that rural people have for urban people, now feels partisan animosity. a very long answer to your question, but we now have a situation with distinct party identities that are really different, people don't see i to i and they increasingly dislike one another. host: your study tested solutions to reduce partisan polarization. what solutions did you test and what you find? guest: what we did to try to address this problem of increasing polarization and anti-democratic attitudes in the general public was to conduct will be called a mega study, which was an effort to gather a lot of ideas for what could reduce these views. we tested 25 ideas in a massive experiment with 32,000 american democrats and republicans, a representative sample of american partisan. the way that we got the ideas that we tested was pretty innovative.

in terms of the republican party, it is a different party today. and jeb and the bush family certainly have shown that they have had difficulty understanding the consistency of being a conservative versus some of the things that are happening within the party itself. host: did he before or will he endorse ron desantis? guest: that is something to ask jeb. good question. host: to boulder, colorado. max's on the democrat line. caller: good morning trade i have two quick questions for you. the first one is how does ron desantis define critical race theory, as he does not want hit taught in schools? and the second question is does ron desantis believe that donald trump actually won the presidency? or does he believe joe biden is a legitimate president -- the legitimate president? those are my two questions. host: thank you. guest: both very good questions. in terms of critical race theory, i think you will see that, as far as the commons the governor has made, that the legislation in florida, he believes there should be greater restrictions that are bo

it is a fascist political party. it is a political party that embraces authoritarianism. >> moving on is the trick here. the party doesn't seem to be doing that at this point. as we were hearing from michael warren a few moments ago, this is a trump cpac as if you know, we were looking at the year 2020 or 2019, as if january 6th and the insurrection hadn't really happened. doesn't this speak in part to kind of the victim complex at the heart of the trump movement? >> no question about that. trump is the ultimate victim if you just ask him, but i think we should try to separate what goes on at cpac, which has frankly become a freak show over the years. it's really not representative of the country and not of the republican party, even today. i think many republicans and many americans do see that donald trump is a diminishing, yet still a dangerous figure. look what just happened in the kansas referendum vote on tuesday. cl clearly a lot of republicans are uncomfortable with where the party's going. republicans voted

>> the idea of an independent party or a third party, i think a third party could win in the united states of america. i think the model is france and mexico. but the eye have about a third party system is over time does that lead to better outcomes? does that lead to a country solving bigger problems? i don't know if coalition politics like you see in the uk and israel is better than the system we have now. but what i think could happen, everyone says 60 votes in the senate. here's a novel idea, forget the far left ten and fined 20 on the other side. they exist. t it is possible. exist in the house, it exists in the senate. what happens is when leadership in washington d.c.ri and what i mean by leadership that's the majority leader of the senate or the speaker in the house. they drive all legislate. nrather than having committees actually driving out real people from both sides working to craft legislation that can get past. if we only think nancy pelosi as bad as if she works with 20 republicans on a piece of legislation, her far left wing is going to eviscerate her. the far right did th

this does not have to be, the republican party does not have to be a party of white nationalism.w alternative given after the republicans lost in 2012, and they did that autopsy that said you need to do a better job with black voters, with latino voters, with asian american voters. we saw it in the way that george w. bush reached out to latinos. it does not have to be this way. there was a choice that donald trump made to accentuate the worst instincts in the party. it is unfortunately what we are seeing with the likes of mastriano, with this ugliness slate of candidates in arizona. what we are seeing with desantis there in florida, but it is not the direction that the party has to go. >> dana milbank, and former congressman carlos curbelo, curbelo, i'm sorry. thank you both for being with us. coming up, and as russia's invasion of ukraine continues, we cannot forget the millions of refugees whose lives have been turned upside down by war. we will have an update on what is happening, and how to help. that is coming next. p. that is coming next. that is coming next. in three secon

or outside the republican party? >> i haven't made any specific decisions or plans about this at this point. >> so running as an independent is a possibility? >> i'm not going to go down that path anymore in terms of speculating. >> the rnc is trying to figure out ways to keep you out, this idea of getting into a debate, promise to support the eventual nominee, you're not going to do that? >> i can understand why they would not want me on a debate stage with donald trump. >> so let's talk about the committee. one of the key figures here, is obviously mike pence, he said this week he's willing to consider testifying if he's asked. are you going to ask him? >> we have been discussions with his counsel when the country has been through something as grave as this was, everybody who has information has an obligation to step forward. i'd hope that wehe'll do that. >> you think we'll see him in september in this room before the committee? >> well, i would hope that he will understand how important it is for the american peo

the republican party is what the party wants to be.t keeps saying this, over and over, and showing this over and over. and we have to accept that. the reason that they don't like liz cheney is because liz cheney was willing to lose which is the essential building block at any democratic system. and the republican party, therefore democracy when they want, and they're not for democracy when they lose, which means they're not for democracy. and that's the dividing line in american politics. it's not about right or left anymore. it's about, do you support a democratic system, or do you support an aquatic system? and i can't tell you how this is gonna turn out. i can tell you who's gonna win, but i know that there won't be an american experiment still flourishing, if the autocratic side winds. >> wow! we're gonna leave it there. that is a scary thought on a late tuesday night. nick troiano, peter baker, stuart stevens, thank you all. then peter and stewart, stick around. ahead on this programming, liz cheney will be doing an exclusive inte

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sure, so that the idea of a independent party or a third party. i think a third party.an it could win in the united states of america? i think the model is macron in france and even amlo in in mexico, but the question i have about a third party system is over time. does that lead to better outcomes and does that lead to a country solving bigger problems? and i don't know if coalition politics like you see in the uk and israel is is better than the system that that we have now, and so but but what i think could happen. everywhere we talk about the 60 votes in the senate. here's a novel idea. forget the far left 10 and find 20 on the other side. they exist. it's possible. it exists in the house. it exists from the senate and and what what happens is when leadership in washington dc what i mean by leadership, that's the majority leader in the senate or the speaker in in the house. they drive all legislation now rather than having stuff being a committees actually driving it where where you have people from both sides working to craft legislation that can get passed. and so

she is a party leader who most contribute to the popularity of her own party, the social democrats.ned, this is not h first time partying, and this is not the first news about it. it seems that before, it is not damaged her or her party, at least on a wide scale. but it is really interesting to see how this goes. the key question is, does she have the support of her own party, and iseems that she has. the social democrats rely heavily on her personal popularity. ♪ >> let's return to our top story , talks in western ukraine inlving the united nations chief who has call for the nuclear power plant to be demilitarized. we're joined by the country's former prime minister. good to have you with us, thanks much for joining us. we were just taking a look at sothing you said at the start of the war, when you said you were sure that victory will come . i'm wondering, six months in, as we are, do you still feel that? >> absolutely, no doubt. there is no other option. this is the victoryf ukraine and this is to be the victory of the entire free world. otherwise autocracies and dictators like p

but the visibility of trump, and his leadership of the party, the republican party and their deferencehim, and the clear signals they are sending about how they would behave around him. it is kind of making almost a dual incumbent situation. in which there is the prospect that the democratic coalition may feel particularly energized and urgent to vote as the republican coalition. creating a very different dynamic that is impossible to interpret even three months ago. >> all right, rob brownstein joining us live from los angeles, many thanks, we're gonna talk again in the next hour. appreciate it. >> and you clear deals with iran could be close just ahead. we what tehran is asking for, just in case the future president polls. out of the agreement. we'll be back with that in a moment. like getting a real offer in two minutetes really make roger happy. so does carvana's s customer advocate caitlin picking up his car at promptly y 10am. hi, are you roger? berglund. withth the honda accord? yes i am. it's right over there. will i be getting? and he loves that caitlin pays him on the spot. y

they're not controlling the party. the republican party is changing. we know that for certain, because the results from a couple of primaries show not just new masters, but new ideas. blake mars won the republican primary in the state of arizona. peter myer of michigan, for example, the guy who voted to allow men to play in women's sports because he's sensitive lost. the republican primary for arizona's gubernatorial race has just taken the lead. she's not like your parents' republican party. in the state of michigan, nixon is the republican nominee, taking on whitmer in the fall. congratulations on your win. you're a candidate who won because you had ideas people liked. you're not part of a party apparatus. am i right? >> absolutely. coming out of nowhere with this idea that family is important has seemed to be striking a nerve in the state of michigan. we've come out there and said, look, we lived through the shutdown, the worst shutdown, and we want to come around parents who want to actually be in schools, and now we have a lot of parents that are