i'm registering the development as pat cipollone and pat philippe in barrel past me and barge into mark's the capital, mark, we need to go down and see the president, now. cipollone. insists mark is a statue on the couch. he doesn't want to do anything, that. pat calmly gives mark direction. mark says something needs to be done. people are going to die. and the blood is going to be on your hands. it is getting out of hand. i'm going down there. my eyes are locked on mark. get, up go with pat. mark slowly stands, leading against the arms on the couch and walked silently to my does. and he's clutching his eyeglasses and his fits, his knuckles are wide, he sets his phone on the desk. let me know if jim calls. meaning jim jordan. jim jordan calls minutes later, i've a pen of hope. once, i call go get him. i go to the dining room, is mark in there? i ask the valley? the valley. not i looked through the people and see the back of the suit. i opened the door to get -- the group is having a heated conversation about the rioters. mark sees me. i pointed the phone screen, or gyms color ideas visibl

and pat cipollone said yes. dent said, okay, you know, i'm naming her that, and i'm giving her security clearance. and then shortly before we left was when cipollone and/or hershman and whoever the other young man was said, you can name her whatever you want to name her and no one's going to pay any attention to it. >> how did you respond -- how did the president respond to that? >> something like, you see what i deal with? i deal with this all the time. >> the meeting was extremely heated with cipollone arguing against the special counsel idea and against seizure of voting machines. >> can the federal government seize voting machines? it's a terrible idea. that's not how we do things in the united states. there's no legal authority to do that. the three of them were really forcefully attacking me, verbally -- eric, derek, and we were pushing back and we were asking one simple question as a general matter. where is the evidence? >> what response did you get? >> a variety of responses. like, what do you mean where

a few minutes later pat cipollone, pat fillben, eric hershman and derek vance barrelled down the hall. i remember it was derek's last day at the white house. i was overthinking it. there was maybe a toast to celebrate his tenure at the white house. pat cipollone's top aide and derek's fiancee wandered in and asked if i knew what was happening in the oval office. she had dinner plans with derek and could not get in touch with him. i said i'm not sure but a bunch of people are in the oval. on cue we both turned toward the sound of raised voices coming from that direction. although the oval office was about a 10 second walk from my desk, it was highly unusual to hear any noise coming from there. we did not make distinct words that night, just people screaming at over. dan scavino was pouring the last of a bottle of wine nau a glass. it screaming was much louder than i anticipated. i looked into the office and saw a larger group. along with the white house lawyers were mike flynn, sidney powell, and patrick byrne, the ceo of oversock.com. i decided to text the deputy chief of staff. flynn

hutc continues, i'm struggling to process what's happening as mark, pat cipollone, pat philbin, ericumble back to the office. i overhear their conversation and suddenly everything makes sense. they are calling for the vice president to be hanged. the president is okay with it. he doesn't want to do anything. he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. he thinks mike is a traitor. thiss crazy. we need to be doi something more. my phone is pging nonstop with e-mail texts, signal messages, and unanswered calls. mark's phones are, too. i am devoi emotion as i consider what i should do and then letting what i just heard and hurt. am gripped with anger i snatch my coat. i run out of the office to go to the eisenhower building. i need to check in with mark's secret serce detail. we need to have a plan i case the worst happens. in case this i the beginning of a coup. that is from cassidy hutchinson's new book which is called "enough" which is out tomorrow. ms. hutchinson, nice to meet you. thank you for being here. >> nice to meet you. thank you for having me, rachel. >> this is the first

and in pat cipollone's case -- the president and mark meadows, that no, you can't do that? that's something you are doing a lot? >> it is. and i took the job with mark with the understanding that we -- , mark and i had an effective working relationship. mark but a lot of trust in me. mark, and i, ideologically, aren't very similar and -- i am more moderate republican and mark's. >> new jersey -- >> thank you. but somebody has to be able to say that -- somebody has to be the person to rein somebody in or just give advice you might not want to hear. and it might not be received well. but it was important that i always provide that to mark. i felt i was there to advise him and guide him in that job. was i a fish out of water at points? absolutely. but i think that is how a lot of the trump administration played out, and i think what sometimes i think is lost is that there were a lot of hair on fire. moments we were swimming to stay afloat. a lot of times we were drawn drowning. and whether it was pat saponi pat cipollone for myself -- our job to make sure he had the best advic

i am struggling to process what is happening as mark meadow and pat cipollone and pat filament and herschmann stumbled back to the office. i overheard the conversation and suddenly, everything makes sense. they are calling for the vice president to be hanged. the president is okayitit. he does not want t do anything. he doesn't think they are doing anything wrong. he thinks that mike is a traitor. this is crazy. we need to be doing something more. now in light of that revelation plus what we already know, i think the most charitable interpretation of donald trump's intentions and actions on january six is that he didn't care one way or the other if what he did and said resulted in the murder of his vice president. the least charitable version as i was hoping the crowd would murder his vice president. that they would get them, they would string them up and lynch him on national television. now this comes on the heels of another new revelation from retiring senator mitt romney of utah. according to an excerpt of his forthcoming biography, written by mccabe cabins, multiple republican members of

and mark had relayed it to pat cipollone to the effect of you heard him, pat, he doesn't want to do anything>> he doesn't want to do anything. >> he doesn't want to do anything. >> despite what cassidy hutchinson witnessed on january 6, she continued to show up to work. the very next day. our conversation will pick up there right after this quick break. >>> and we're back with our policy lead. cassidy hutchinson telling me why she found it so difficult to break away from trump world and what she feared would happen if she had not. >> so, on the morning of january 7th, you still went to work? >> i did. >> and this is one of the things that i think that some of your critics on left, or never trumpers who are republicans, say you see your friend alyssa griffin, going on tv and she's denouncing january 6 and stephanie gresham and secretary devos and others resigned that day. secretary mnuchin was considering invoking the 25th amendment. and tell me why you want back. because obviously you feel passionately about this and been very brave in your testimony. but you still on january 7th went back t

>>, so i can't believe i'm doing this going to quote pat cipollone to the january 6th committee, at someou have to put up and say what facts are. so, you know, you might want to believe something is true, but, you know, there's a difference between that and evidence. even rudy giuliani said we only have theories. we don't have evidence to i think it was rusty bowers. the other thing that for jeff clark and i don't think this is going to -- i don't think that this argument that he might have been a true believer will prevent him from being charged. i do think that of all the people after trump, the department of justice is going to have such a keen interest in holding somebody like jeff clark to account given what he did at the department. remember, one of the things that he did allegedly is lied to the acting attorney general and to the deputy attorney general. that is a crime. making an intentional false statement to them. so even if he truly believed that the election was stolen, but see, there is no evidence, so i think he'll be charged with that, but he also lied to them and whether

that there was one person, there is one person that i can find in here, actually, maybe a couple, pat cipollone, who when it mattered, said, no, you can't do. that i was sitting out here, watching that presence. and wondering is there anyone is there anyone in the west wing who says to anyone above them, in your case mark meadows, impassable on his case, the president and mark meadows, that no, you can't do that? that's something you are doing a lot? >> it is. and i took the job with mark with the understanding that we would likely not always agree on everything. and a large part, that's why mark and i had an effective working relationship. mark but a lot of trust in me. mark, and i, ideologically, aren't very similar and -- >> new jersey -- >> thank you. but something has to be able to -- somebody has to be the person to -- or just give advice you might not want to hear. and it might not be received well. but it was important that i always provide that to mark. i felt i was there to advise him and guide him in that job. was i a fish out of water at points? absolutely. but i think that is how a

there were light moments too including this funny one-liner from white house counsel pat sip pa pat cipollone>> president trump is a man of his word. [ laughter ] >> jimmy: get him a netflix comedy special fast! so the president himself wasn't here, he was in switzerland for the past few days at the world economic forum where he weighed in on his trial and said another stupid thing. he said he felt confident that he would be acquitted because we have all the material, they don't have the material. because he refuses to turn any of the documents and evidence over. he cannot help but brag. even if it hurts him, he can't keep that big orange mouth shut. the president also elaborated on the fact that in 1999, he criticized attorney ken starr, who is now his attorney, during bill clinton's impeachment, he called starr a lunatic and a disaster. they asked why he said that, and what he thinks of ken starr now. >> so ken starr is a -- a terrific man. i did make that statement because frankly i didn't think that bill clinton should have been impeached. i didn't know ken, but what i did know is he was

pat cipollone testified before the committee. were in the same trusted inner, isle and all faced the same kinds of reper kugs that peter navarro faces. >> i also ask him about the funding of his defense. there are people like mr. giuliani who have gotten help and there are lawyers indicted like ms. ellis who have not. here's what he said about that tonight. >> how much did he help you in legal fees, donald trump? >> about $300,000. my legal fees are well in excess of 6. i have been raising money through defendpeter.com. if anybody in msnbc land wants to help, defendpeter.com. this will be a million dollar case. >> it's a fact that his legal fees are high. donald trump has proven extremely stingy with his own lawyers, let alone other people's. do you think there's anything to interpret or anything of interest that this is one of the few people he's decided, according to navarro, to fund? >> if this is the case that he has funded some portion of navarro's defense it would be noteworthy. it would indicate this is someone he's partic

national archive has these long discussions with him and at first before he even left the white house pat cipollone who was on board with the national archives saying, we know it's got to go back, it's yours, it's classified. it's not going to work. they can bring everybody to testify, kash patel and others that they saw the clair vow apartment process happening, it's not going to work. something interesting with regard to the audiotapes of corcoran, it was not so much the warning that he gave trump now just shifting gears and, hey, if you don't comply the fbi could show up here. they could get a search warrant for here. that's very interesting and the prosecution will use it but it's trump's response to that that really is valuable. at least for me. his response as you said earlier was, wouldn't it be better if we just told them there's nothing here? that's the criminal mindset. hey, the fbi can show up. hey, let's hide this stuff now, right? and someday there will be exhibits prepared by jack smith's team for a jury, these neat graphics we'll put up on, you know, easels for the jury to look at or

mark had relayed it to pet cipollone, to the effect of, you heard him, pat, he doesn't want to do anything. >> he doesn't want to do anything. >> he doesn't want to do anything. >> and still ahead, more objects interview with cassidy hutchinson. including how she turned up to work the day after january 6th. we will be back in a moment. >> (♪♪) (♪♪) the new stuffed quesadillas. only at el pollo loco the power goes out and we still have wifi the to do our homework.llas. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. ♪ the new summer family meal. starting at $24. only at el pollo loco. >> despite what cassidy hutchinson witnessed on january 6th, she did show up to work the very next day. hutchinson tells jake tapper why she found it so difficult to ultimately break away from trump world. >> so, on the morning of january 7th, you still want