>> they said that pat fitzgerald is either walking a very fine line or he is just basically thrown up on that line. keep in mind what we know about what pat fitzgerald has said to players that are just things in the fun lick sphere. we don't know what he's saying to players behind closed doors. anybody who believes that he is just expressing his opinion, which he is allowed to do legally, and not engaging in threats or concepts of retaliation, which he is not allowed to do, i mean people who believe in that probably also believe rand paul is sincere in his desire for racial reconciliation. it's absolute garbage. the thing we have to keep in mind about pat fitzgerald as well, he played at northwestern in the mid-1990s. his leg was broken as a player and when cane colter first started his union campaign, he sent out a tweet that was supportive. so the labor lawyers said it's pretty clear that pat fitzgerald has been coached to walk this fine line. we also have to remember, jonathan, that a football team is not a consensus-based organization. it is very top down, it is very autocratic, a

what is so obscene about the coaches - look at a man, pat fitzgerald. he's a coach at north western. they are about to vote. pat fitzgerald has been on the war path saying "you better not vote yes on union", he makes $2.5 million, and had a $2.5 million loan from the school. shame on him and the coaches who are benefitting from the labour of the kids and not standing up for them. >> the hypocrisy is incredible and forced amateurism is ridiculous. all the issues that there have been in the past, in the olympics and elsewhere. good to have you with us. the show may be over the the conversation continues on the website aljazeera.com. or on the facebook or google+ pages. you can find us on twitter. see you next time. good evening everyone. welcome to al jazeera america. i'm john siegenthaler e-john inw york. flash point. taking control of another region near crimea. the hive and death of an extraordinary man of faith. >> bernie

collective bargaining are not the appropriate methods to address these concerns the head coach pat fitzgerald has been discouraging the team from organizing >> now it's our time to educate them we have to educate them to help them understand the whole aspect of what this decision is >> the team's current quarterback has also taken a vocal stand against the union >> i don't support it i think at this university i am extremely lucky to be in the position that i am at i don't need a union to answer for my time >> but opinion is clearly split - kari lyderson-a former member of northwestern's swim team-says there's value to having a union and points to what she calls rigid n-c-double-a rules - including one she violated in the '90s. i just wrote an article for a swimming magazine and it was a really glowing article about one of my teammates and it turned out that violated an ncaa policy against athletes working >> regardless of what happens at northwestern, the vote is triggering conversations that could change the relationship between schools and student athletes everywhere diane eastabrook = = =

it from both sides, because you have the wire citing a letter from "the new york times," coach pat fitzgerald e-mailed to the team, according to "the new york times" part of the letter reads that i know down in my heart that the downside of joining a union is nothing bigger than forming a union on the upside. >> well, pat fitzgerald is extremely supported, and they are supporting the quarterback who is also involved in the cause, and that is why they wanted to sign the union cards and all that, but they are feeling, and the people are afraid of what could happen. if they are give n the right to unionize, and thus, given the right to collectively bargain, that is a big thing that could happ happen. it could be having small consequences, but it could have huge consequences, and people are afraid of the unknown, and that is true of the coaching staff and true of the ncaa, and also true of the players, and many of whom have a very good life as it is now at northwestern. or wherever else, and northwestern is a stand-in here. and there is nervousness about what might we do to upset that, and it is

make no mistake, pat fitzgerald is their boss.essentially is their employer. they have to make a moral and ethical decision, short term -- potentially damage their short-term athletic prospects because they're going against what the coach stated he's not in favor are of or look out long-term for the player that say come behind them. >> and they're 20. >> yes. >> and he is their employer and i've seen it over and over again with recruited athletes but they act like they're your parent. and so there's -- >> absolutely. >> my employer doesn't come sit in my living room and say nice, friendly things about how they're going to take care of me, so it helps you to see, oh, that person is my employer. in this case the relationship is modeled. >> yeah. and the other thing was i think that people are also missing it hasn't been in the conversation is when i went to uconn, my scholarship was paid by one of our donors. there's a lot of universities now that get -- that donors are paying for scholarships while people are saying that the money

we know northwestern's coach, pat fitzgerald, who is beloved on that campus, he did send a number oft, players as well. one of those e-mails he sent to his team read in part, quote, understand that by voting to have a union, you would be transferring your trust from those you know -- me, your coaches, and the administrators here -- to what you don't know, a third party who may or may not have the team's best interests in mind. how aggressive of a campaign was launched on the campus of northwestern by fitzgerald, by the administration? how aggressive of a campaign was launched to defeat this vote, to make sure that those players voted no? >> well, first of all, i would say that that was -- what you just read makes it very powerful stuff on the part of pat fitzgerald. with good reason. football teams don't need unnecessary disruption on the side. but if i'm a football player, and i don't know if seniors were aloud to vote. i don't know if it was by class. 76 people that voted. i've been assured that, you know, my vote is secret and will always be secret. that being said, if i feel as a

pat fitzgerald is their coach, beloved, but the players will not go against his wishes burk what is muchrb's ruling about whether they are employees. if northwestern's appeal gets denied a and they are employees, yes, this is going the happen at another school, but my guess, a basketball team, because you have seven guys to vote yes s, d if there is a unpopular coach hired or popular coach fired, that is a galvanizing incident to create a union push. >> and ben, let me get you to weigh in on this point particularly how you expect this vote to go. >> well, i think that andy's point is a good one that the vote, itself, may not be as important and likely is not as important as the nlrb's decision. they could vote the union down, and if the nlrb upholding the regional direction here in chicago, these are employee and workers' compensation issues and the unemployment issues and the doors are opening at other places, whether it is football or basketball. and it is there, you know, sort of for eternity, regardless of what happens today at northwestern and as far as what is going to happen, i th

. >> it's these players who now, pat fitzgerald, the coach, has spoken to and tried to give them reasons vote yes to form the first union in college sports? >> seth: that, of course, would be the most incredible outcome, as now, they're given a chance, and obviously this will probably take years before it actually comes to -- >> your guys school, too. >> it is remarkable to me. seth and i went to a school that no one ever talks about athletics under practically, any circumstances. isn't that the school seth meyers went to? isn't that the school stephen colbert went to? isn't that the school julia louis-dreyfus went to? now all of a sudden, isn't that the school where the football team is going to be unionized? [ light laughter ] so this is not exactly -- >> seth: well that's why i hated it. they used to talk about me. and now it's all -- >> you're going be buried. yeah, that's not cool. >> seth: well, thank you guys so much for coming on. >> our pleasure, our pleasure. >> seth: it's just a delight to talk to you -- >> great to be here. >> seth: i love listening to your show. love watchin

know coach fitzgerald very well, and if i put one coach in charge of his players, it's probably pat fitzgeraldthe guys do love the guy and care about him a great deal. kenny colter, leading the charge, has been quick to point out that he loved northwestern. the coaching staff has been very good to him. they've got a 97% graduation rate. this is not exactly a football factory. like emory, torre. had to get that one in, man. >> john, the officials at northwestern have been making dire predictions about what will happen if the team unionizes. they're saying that the construction of a new athletic facility at the university will be jeopardized, head coach fitzgerald might leave. how credible are those threats? the way i understand they work is football and basketball are cash cows and cross-subsidize everything else. >> it depends on who's writing the checks. it tends to be donors. if the donor is not happy, then the donor's not going to write that check. it's not based so much on university policy as it is on the whole development officer. that's how it breaks down. now, in the case of northweste

. >> and steve, northwestern's football coach pat fitzgerald who is beloved on that campus, to say thehas come out strongly against the unionization, and he has written the letters to the students and the parents as well. here is the excerpt of the e-mail that he sent. you should understand that by voting to have a union, you would be transferring your trust from those you know, me, your coaches and the administrator the here, to what you don't know, a third party who may or may not have the team's best interests in mind. the all-out push to prevent these kids from starting a union there at northwestern, the push has been fairly intense would you say? >> absolutely. you have the kids and then the former alums and the former players, and they are actively being able to go there and say, hey, look, we need the rights, but then you will get the opposition from the administration. the coaches. i mean, it is very tough to have a coach look at you, and say, so what are you going to vote, and you are a potential starter next year. >> and the kids are 19, 20, 21 years old in some cases, and st