. >> the gop senator pat toomey said republicans blocked a bill on background checks because they, quote, did not want to be seen helping the president do something he wanted to get done just because the president wanted to do it. they worked against a common sense proposal just because the president wanted to do it. this has been the gop's number one rule for years. but this weekend president obama had enough. he told republicans to quit rooting for his health care law to fail. it's a theme that former president bill clinton picked up on today. >> when president bush passed the medicare program for seniors, it wasn't paid for and it was more unpopular than the health care bill was and there were horrible computer problems when it was implemented. the people that voted for it and the people that voted against it said it's the law of the land,

all this nonsense could have been put to rest if they'd taken pat toomey's bill and they wouldn't do it, bob. that's why i think they're insincere and trying to cause trouble. >> you're right. there's a false sense of hysteria out there and a lot of it has to do on the president's side. let's remember one thing here, larry and robert. the president needs to show leadership. he is the head of our executive branch. and one should make the argument he should be negotiating in full faith behind closed doors. 17 years ago when it was bill clinton on the stage, bill clinton had partisan jabs from a public standpoint, but behind the scenes he was negotiating, showing leadership, and behind the scenes he was literally conceding different points. we don't see that with this white house. >> i was saying, i couldn't disagree more respectfully, robert. if democrats refuse to raise the debt ceiling for unrelated issues saying they want on-demand abortion across the country, they'd be laughed out of the room -- >> by the way, they have done that. go back -- they exactly have done that. and by the

now why is it democrats don't like your bill, and two years ago didn't like pat toomey's bill? what's up with that? >> because they want to use a credit default as a threat. and it's an irresponsible threat for all the reasons you've been discussing. but it's interesting. the law that establishes the department of the treasury that goes back to 1789 already gives the treasury secretary the responsibility and the authority to manage the public revenues and to protect the public credit. in the mean 80s, the government accountability group says that the treasury department has the authority to manage payments to assure that debt is always paid first. >> in other words, they already have the authority. so that undercuts obama's position even more. i mean, for him to point the finger of a default, he may as wellpoint the finger at his own treasury, because they have the authority to do that. revenues come into the government, right? revenues come in on an ongoing basis. what you're really saying is treasury interest expense or servicing, treasury principle, treasury rollovers, they

pat toomey is smart. what skin does he have in this game? if we do have a catastrophe october 17th, 18th or 19th. we don't know what day it is. what does he say? obama could have moved the money around, but he didn't? he brought on the catastrophe? what's their fall back? >> i don't know. pat toomey is my kind of republican. i'm a club for growth republican. i'm sure that will come back to haunt me on twitter sometime. but he's a small-government republican. he's also a guy that actually supported background checks at a time that it cost him a great deal politically with the national republican party. it doesn't make accept, but i tell you this. i think this is the point where the fever breaks, when you have the wall street journal, people like bill crystal on our show, the koch brothers, and other business owners. they step forward and say guys, look what the congressional budget office said, you may be able to play around for a week or two and move money around for a week or two, but there will be a real default. for people who have skin i

let's bring in republican senator pat toomey of pennsylvania. he also serves on the senate budget committee. thanks for being here. do you think at this point the only way out of this is some sort of big grand bargain type of deal, such as the one i described earlier in the show? >> i think a big grand bargain is quite unlikely, jake. honestly, i think the biggest problem is the president's insistence that he will not negotiate. the president thinks that he should be the first and only president? modern times not to have to address the most challenging issue that faces our country, which is getting or spending, getting our fiscal house in order. every previous president in my lifetime has agreed to address those things and done so over the debt ceiling. this president thinks that he should have nothing to do with that. that is completely unreasonable. i for one, and many of my republican colleagues would be very flexible about the many things we could do to begin to little on a sustainable fiscal path, but when you can't have a conversation with

here now is the bill's senate sponsor pennsylvania republican pat toomey. senator, welcome back. you put this thing up a couple years ago and president obama and the senate democrat s didn' want it. would you have taken the whole issue off the table. why were they against the passage of this that would have secured no default? >> by the way, i reintroduced it in this congress. it is still available to the senate democrat and president obama to make it literally him possible to have a default on our debt. i'm not worried that the treasury is actually going to default on its debt. the ongoing tax revenue is about 12 times the amount of money we owe in debt service. but i thought it was important to make a clear statement to the savers across america that under no circumstances including failure to raise the debt ceiling would we ever tdefault n our debt and they rejected it precisely because the president and this democratic senate unfortunately want to scare the american people, want to create this uncertainty all in an effort to intimidate republicans into giving the president hu

. >>> up next, members of the senate republican committee, pat toomey joins us."morning joe." we'll be right back. evto earn degrees in mathan stand science.ut but more than half leave their programs. so we're missing out on 450,000 math and science graduates annually. but if we can help students prepare for these subjects we'll have a stronger workforce for our fastest-growing industries. let's invest in our future. join exxonmobil in advancing math and science education. let's solve this. >> welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at capitol hill, blue skies in washington. here with us now from capitol hill, republican senator from pennsylvania senator pat toomey. senator, god to have you on the show this morning. >> good morning, guys. it's nice to be back with you. >> so what's the best way to end this thing without raising the debt krolling, with or without defaulting, how do we do that? >> first of all, there is zero chance the u.s. will default on its dent it's unfortunate, people have not completed this idea of this debt ceiling without defaulting on o

pat toomey serves on the debt committee. lets talk about that.ays we're not focusing on gold plated obama care, it does, it gets subsidized like everyone else gets subsidized by their employer. that was the case. this was actually an amendment that came from republican senator chuck grassley, who you know very well. it was a grassley amendment that forced this upon congress. >> yeah, i'm not sure what the question is, andrea, but you're right. >> congressman duffy is complaining about this but it came from the republican side of the senate, this amendment required this of congress itself. >> i didn't hear the conversation with congressman duffy, so i don't have an opinion about what he may have said. chuck grassley's amendment is the law of the land, it means members of congress are forced onto the exchange as well as their staffer and that's going to happen. >> let me ask you about the debt ceiling. you believe there is some sort of wiggle room the treasury can -- we know october 17th isn't a magic day, closer to the 1st before they sell bonds a

coming up on "morning joe," republican pat toomey joins us. also aowe. >> we have a comeback, really, a comeback story. >> also. >> go cart. >> there ask a new name topping the forbes list of the world's most powerful people. we'll get a complete breakdown with the magazine's executive editor. >> embargo. speaking of powerful, my god. >> here with the stories. >> it's crazy, he's like a ceo now. i started part-time, now i'm a manager.n. my employer matches my charitable giving. really. i get bonuses even working part-time. where i work, over 400 people are promoted every day. healthcare starting under $40 a month. i got education benefits. i work at walmart. i'm a pharmacist. sales associate. i manage produce. i work in logistics. there's more to walmart than you think. vo: opportunity. that's the real walmart. ♪ hey lady! noooo! no! [ tires screech ] ♪ nooo! nooo! nooo! hey lady, that's diesel! i know. ♪ ♪ they always have. they always will. that's why you take charge of your future. your retirement. ♪ ameriprise advisors can help you like th

pat toomey. two other tea party favorites who were elected in 2010.i have the support of mike huckabee and bill bennett. i think they're going stro a hard time convincing kentucky primary voters that mitch mcconnell is some kind of liberal. in fact, we took a poll last month to check that out, and only 2% of kentuckians thought i was a liberal. i think that's a pretty hard sell. and it's almost certainly going to fail. >> schieffer: what do you want now from president obama? what do you want him to do now? you're facing the same problems that caused this government shutdown. what would you like the president to do now? >> my first choice would be to take advantage of the opportunity present bide divided government. you know divided government has historically done things. i think ronald reagan and tip o'neil doing the last comprehensive tax reform. i think of bill clinton and a republican congress doing welfare reform and actually balancing the budget multiple years in the late 90 pps divided government san opportunity to tackle tough stuff, and we al

the proposal is based on concepts that have been discussed by senator pat toomey and congressman charlie dent and they also reflect by own personal discussions with many of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle. mr. president, even the staunchest advocates of obamacare, including the president himself, recognize that the law is not perfect. what 2,000-plus-page law dealing with extremely complex issues could be? the president himself has delayed implementation of the employer mandate and certain consumer protections. i have, therefore, searched for common ground on reforming obamacare, seeking a proposal that has widespread bipartisan support in order to attract the necessary votes of our house colleagues on both sides of the aisle. and that is the repeal of the 2.3% tax on the sales of medical equipment. when such an amendment repealing this tax was considered by the senate during the budget resolution, it passed by a resounding vote of 79-20. clearly , it has strong bipartisan support. this $30 billion tax on medical devices such as pacemakers and defibrillators will cause the loss

from orrin hatch to rain paul to pat toomey have all said they think it is possible to hit the debt ceiling for the first time in history, it is possible for us to blow through it but avoid economic catastrophe anyway because we can skillfully -- there is no mechanical kim for doing that, the treasury department that would be responsible for doing it says that it cannot be done. even if it could be done, an estimate from deutsch bank analysts that was published by "the washington post" today projects that that idea, even if it were possible, even if it were true, they project that that idea would drop 1,500 points off the stock market right away. it would reduce the economic growth in this country by 4.12% and that's if the magic we won't default scheme is possible. which it probably isn't possible. but republican senator richard burr says getting upset about this is just scaring ourselves. it's one of the best things that could happen for young people. bloomberg news started off with a -- convince republicans that the debt ceiling is a real thing. quote among the dozens of money managers e

the house to the senate the full faith and credit act authored by tom mcclintock in the house and pat toomeye senate, california and pennsylvania. and all it says is we have got a lot of revenues pouring. in first call on the revenues goes to debt service. so you cannot default. >> bret: on the public opinion though, people look at $17 trillion in debt and they think raising the debt ceiling and it just does not really fly when you look at polls. if you are going to look at polls at shutting down the government, the polls on the debt ceiling are in the republicans' favor. people say why can't we control what we are spending? now, how serious is that moment, october 17th? >> it depends on how seriously the markets take it. in august, 2011, standard and poor's downgrades the nation's credit. the only loser in that was standard and poor's because no one cared. that's supposed to raise the cost of borrowing after standard and poor's lowered our credit rating. the cost of borrowing by the u.s. government declined by 40%. it depends on what the consequences are. >> this is probably a first, but i

cruz, mike enze, ron johnson, dean heller, pat roberts, marco rubio, tim scott, richard shelby, pat toomey, and david vitter. 18 no votes, but those 18 senators saying no was not enough to stop the rescue plans from going forward. to now the -- so now, the plan goes to the house, which mean there is is still a lot of work. now obviously, all of those no-vote senators were republicans, all 18 of them. and of course the whole deal started when the republicans in the house hatched a plan, right, sure, they had voted 30, 40, okay more than 40 times to repeal the health care reform law, to repeal obama care. more than 40 times. but it never mattered. they kept voting over and over and over dozens of times to repeal obama care in the how long. but everybody ignored them. so then this whole thing started when republicans hatched a plan. please explain the plan. >> i believe that this is our time. this is when it really matters. yes, we voted to repeal obama care 30 to 40 times, but this is when it really counts. this is when it is time to put up or shut up. >> 40, 30, maybe more than 40. the othe

but ted cruz and mike lee and marco rubio and pat toomey, all these guys -- and rand paul -- all these guys came to washington by beating "k" street. this is my column coming up in "the examiners" pointing out how all the corporate pac money, all the lobbyist money went into sort of the modern establishment of the republicans while ted cruz was getting money from the senate conservatives fund and from club for growth. and so you had the ideological money. >> ideological money. that's the important thing. that's the way to understand this. you've got big-business wall street institutional money which is amoral. >> and pragmatist. >> right. and then the koch brothers are both big money. they represent big business, but they also have an ideological agenda they're pushing. those two have to be separate. >> think about the parallel to make it more sense to your audience is sort of you guys have the net roots. you guys have real liberal money pouring in. so think about elizabeth warren and hillary clinton. that dichotomy. elliz beth warren wing, the analogy is ted cruz. the hillary clinton

we'll talk to a senator from pennsylvania, pat toomey, a republican, who has taken this argument.e that the u.s. government is going to default on its debt. it's unfortunate that people have conflated this idea of not raising the debt ceiling immediately on october 17th with somehow defaulting on our debt. you know, we bring in in tax revenue about 12 times as much money as it takes to pay our interest on our debt. >> wolf, a lot of republicans that i have had on the show this week say that might be technically true, but we shouldn't be playing this game. we shouldn't be taking this risk. so we'll be talking to senator toomey, also senator dick durbin, democrat from illinois, and much more coming up on "the lead." >> we'll be watching at the top of the hour. >> it's been a rallying cry for republicans during this whole shutdown, defund obama care program. now, a new message from congressman paul ryan. it doesn't make one specific mention of obama care. could this be a solution to getting the government restarted? that's next. [ coughs, sneezes ] i have a big meeting when we land,

i think the story here is going to be i believe pat toomey is on the committee questioning him today. that would force a prioritization. review the story that says the treasury says we have no law no basis for saying pay interests. well, here's the prioritization we want you to do. and that's been blocked by the democrats because i think they don't want this to be painless. >> i think you look at the idea of a default technically and technically a default is not paying the interest on the treasuries. but it seems like a difficult argument that we don't owe social security and veterans -- >> pretty big political default not paying social security and political. i think both houses of congress -- >> the idea, i don't want to be in this position of saying i'm going to pay -- and this is demagoguing the issue here to be fair. china, japan, and the bankers, their interest. but not social security and we've been through, by the way, you know, that -- if you pay this, you can't pay that. it is real that if you do get into a situation where the debt ceiling is not raised, you've got to get ri

there was a sharp exchange between senator pat toomey, republican, who has tried to pass prioritizationtion, which would instruct how to pay bills if we hit the debt ceiling and the treasury can no longer borrow. >> are you prepared to assure us but more importantly the millions who are investors in u.s. treasury securities and the entire american economy that under no circumstances will you permit a missed payment on a u.s. treasury security obligation? >> senator, the only way to make sure we can pay all of our obligations is for congress to act and raise the debt limit. no president has ever had to decide whether to pay some bills and not others. >> i understand, that's a different question. >> the law is complicated and i am not the one who makes that decision, as you know. >> you would make the decision. >> no, no, it's actually not my decision. it is something that the president would have to decide. and i'm telling you that it would be -- put us into default if we went to a place where we could play one bill and not others. >> now, earlier in the testimony secretary lew was asked

from my own home state of pennsylvania, one democrat, senator bob casey, one republican, senator pat toomey, supported the bill. in fact, senator casey was its chief author and sponsor. the medical device tax repeal was part of the house continuing resolution. it was blocked consideration by leader reid. for the past two weeks, the house has tried to prevent the shutdown and protect the american people from the president's health care law. the senate has decided to drag its feet and reject these reasonable proposals. ere is a right way and appointing conferees. that's appointing negotiators, republicans and democrats and to sit down and work out our differences. that's elementary civics. they prevented regular order from proceeding. i was elected to reform government and i'll continue fighting on their behalf. congress must act now to end this shutdown and get to work on the many challenges facing this great nation. thank you, mr. speaker. the speaker pro tempore: i thank the gentleman. the chair now recognizes the distinguished gentleman from massachusetts, mr. mcgovern, for five minutes.