pataki was supportive, giuliani was, at least on paper, supportive. and then what happens is burlingame's group gets to hillary clinton. and this is, and, you know, everyone's planning on running for president all in this group. this is very, you know, politics is a big part of this. they convince her in rather happenstance effort to say that she's against the museum. they write a press release, they publicize that hillary clinton is against this, giuliani becomes against it, pataki becomes against it. it's like boom, boom, boom. so that's it. you're right in some sense, as soon as it becomes a controversy like that and politically it's not sustainable, it's gone. but you do have to look at something like the debate over the islamic center which is another major controversy at ground zero that was following in the same footsteps. you had people getting really emotional, lots of protests on the streets, op-ed pages, the blogosphere -- >> host: but a different result. >> guest: but a different result. it stayed. and certain politicians said it should be

university, and michael shaw, and tom toerty, republican strategist and former advisor to governor pataki. >> ban balz wrote a piece in the wost about red states versus blue shats, how they're increasingly falling under one party control, on the one hand, lean limited government and on the other, government play essential roles in society. are we seeing the emergence of two americas? >> yes, and we have seen this for one side. a student asked me if this is the most divided we have been as a country. i said, "we had a still war", this is the most divided we've been since the civil war, which is sad and tragic. you have more states like california, where i am now, which doesn't have a single elected state-wide republican, and texas, which doesn't have a single state-wide elected democrat. states are moving in those directions. >> the ideological device seems to grow. fewer republicans believe in evolution right now than in 2009. more democrats believe in serious evolution. will weighbridge a gap and find a happy middle ground or are we completely apart. >> political bases are running to the

. >> to further discuss the cuts we have on set tom doherty, and a former advisor george pataki to the government, a strategist from mercury, and rebecca dixon, from the national employment law center. thank you for being with us. tom, good idea to cut the unemployed benefits? >> not a good idea. there's two sides, the factual side. the economy is at the point where we are moving forward, a good pace. doing this would slow down the economy. all this is going back to the economy. there's a political equation. the developments want to trap the republicans into being the bad anies. >> you are a republican. >> yes. i get it. people are suffering in this country. what is the long-term solution. we should give vouchers or benefits to move from nevada to north dakota. >> if you say it's a bad idea to cut benefits, why do others say it's a good idea? >> because if you sit here, the average working american says at what point does it end? when do the handouts end, 26 weeks, 53 weeks, 97 weeks. we don't have a long-term plan. it's a political equation that we need to come up with. republicans ne

compelling story was new york is trending blue, it is getting away from what was still then this patakiopponent. you see liz cheney's first ads are basically her daughter saying, we love wyoming, really, we're from wyoming, behind stead of any real political message. there is not much else to run on. >> wyoming, is it one of those states -- showing you have roots too, obviously liz cheney has her father's roots there, but i wonder about scott brown in new hampshire. what is the story to voters in new hampshire? i'm a republican, i'm from a blue state, you're not as blue, so i want to come here -- >> i moved here for the taxes, which is -- >> a lot of massachusetts people did move there for the taxes, so maybe -- >> live free or die more that may help. i think i agree with your analogy on wyoming, especially because -- this was a problem for liz cheney, she made headlines after she tried to get a fishing license and wasn't there for long enough to get a fishing license. if you can't get a fishing license, that's a sign to voters that, maybe you're not really from here. >> you're setting

joe it goes 315 miles per hour and governor pataki and i were on the advisory board. a pad and wrote on the pad without the slightest bit of jarring. >> this is what's so frustrating. 2009 the president and congress pass the largest spending bill in the history of this country. we heard about all these shovel ready projects. then we find out from the president a year or two later that there actually weren't shovel ready projects. if you're a new york resident, and you hear about infrastructure problems, you're going to say wait a second i'm paying higher taxes than anybody in the country other than california. this is like education, this is like health care. it's not that we don't spend enough money because we spend more money per pupil and per patient than any other country on the planet and we spend a lot of money on transportation. why aren't we getting the transportation we deserve from our government? >> well, first of all, joe, stimulus failed for two reasons. one, the percentage of money on stimulus and steve can give you the exact percentage it was very low.