is he saying, look, i'm going to kick their butt like paton would no matter what it takes, i'm going to ram it down their throat? >> that's exactly the question and the answer is no. he's an intellectual. if you look at this and you realize if you take what he says and it's repeated, you say, i do not want a ten-year plan. i'm not doing ten years. >> clearly -- >> he wants out. >> who wouldn't? >> yeah. >> who wouldn't want out of that mess? we're spending billions of dollars over there and getting our people killed. who wouldn't? but here is the deal, once you fight, you have to fight to win. you have to fight to win. a lot of americans, including me, are not sure he has the heart for the fight. >> it's a fair question. when you look at the record here that's presented in this book, the x factor that never comes out, he never -- when i asked him, i said, you can't lose a war while you're president. he said, well, i don't look in terms of winning a war or losing a war on my watch. i want the country to be in a better position. now, as you know, if you ask that question to george bush