patricia lalonde, how do you draw the line?when do you know you are going from punishing to all of a sudden toppling bashar al-assad and trying to change the regime? >> yes, i think the red line is when we know exactly what happens with his arms. things are changing every day. we have to know who is the enemy. to me it is not bashar al-assad. the enemy is al qaeda. i think sometimes al qaeda has a bad name. they are fighting with the rebels against the regime. al qaeda is making politicians everywhere. nobody is thinking about this. >> this is interesting. if you want to reply to that. >> this question of regime change, whether or not we' the s doing doing everything possible to stay as far away as a regime change. they had been resistant to go in at all. i really think they are struggling with how to scope this so you don't get dragged into a deeper involvement and at the same time preparing for those contingencies. is there a strike back at turkey? are you obliged to -- >> a giant chess game. donald rumsfeld said -- i want to