joining us to do that, patricia powell, founder and ceo of powell financial group. she is a smarty. for those who have fofile bankruptcy, we want them to be able to take charge and do it right. so the impact isn't as devastating. when is it a good idea? >> well, when you really need that second chance. america's just a country full of second chances. so if your debt is so out of control that you just can't manage the required minimum payments, it is a red flag to say, maybe this would work for me. if the kind of debt that you have is the kind that can be dealt with in bankruptcy, not all dealt can be dealt with -- >> jamie: that's interesting. what about student loans? >> you can't get rid of your student loans, with very few exceptions. you can't get rid of court-ordered child support or alimony or a drunk driving conviction and a judgment against you, you can't get rid of that kind of thing. you can't get rid of taxes, within certain limitations. so you have to make sure that the kind of debt you have can be dealt with in the bankruptcy. >> jamie: you over-did it on your credit ca