to talk about all of these issues, we are joined by patrick cockburn, middle east correspondent for theependent. patrick, welcome back to democracy now! let's start with a surprise announcement after the phone conversation between erdogan and trump that the u.s. is pulling for turkey tos attack in northern syria. explain what you understand is happening and the significance of this. really athis is shakespearean act of betrayal. army iss, turkish planning to come across the border with syria. this means the kurds, who have been fighting isis, fighting daesh, will mostly flee southwards. about 2 million people. so we're going to have what is in effect a major act of ethnic cleansing it is not clear from what the white house says how far the turks will go. they say it will be on the border, but they also say the turks will take over a refugee membersl of former isis , particularly women and children. but that is right over on the iraqi border. if the turks go that far, than they are taking over a big chunk of northeast syria. so this is sort of good news for the turks. it is very bad news

patrick cockburn corresponded to predicted the rise of isis and joins us predicted the rise of isis andf al—baghdadi a significant moment? will isis snowfall? he was the last important element in the caliphate which he declared in 2014. the caliphate extended to an area bigger than great britain under iraq and syria. that and being ground down since 2014. but it always stood out in everybody‘s minds that al—baghdadi we re everybody‘s minds that al—baghdadi were still alive and that isis was powerful and strong enough to keep them safe. so this is a big moment but it doesn't mean that isis will be totally out of business. as an organisation. it will make a and critically think of making attacks to counteract the impression that the death of al—baghdadi will make. we are already sealing an increase in guerrilla attacks in syria. —— mike seeing an increase. what was it about as miniature because the movement to rise under him? he had opportunities. he took over in 2010 and two previous leaders of what became isis were killed in american air strike. shortly afterwards we had the arab spring

patrick cockburn is the independent‘s middle east reporter and predicted the rise of is. the caliphate which she declared in 2014. he was the last important leader to survive. the caliphate at one moment extended into an area bigger than britain and the and syria. that a big run down since 2014 and it doesn't hold any territory. but it always stood out in everybody‘s mind that abu bakr al—baghdadi was still alive and that isis was powerful and strong enough to keep him safe. so this is a big moment. it doesn't mean that isis will be totally out of business as a guerrilla organisation. we will probably think of making attacks particularly to counteract the impression that the death of the caliphate of abu bakr al—baghdadi will make. we are already seeing an increase in guerrilla attacks in syria and i think that will probably go on. we can now speak to a terrorism and political violence researcher at american university — chelsea daymon. shejoins us from our studio in washington. how significant do you think this is potentially for the efforts to repel and contain islamic

founder and her pet patrick cockburn her and and and he admitted it did you have to believe he was ms martha maccallum challenge show oh he had he had made it made it that he was placed placed by the by the f b i the. that and even the. 2 to find maria this is a billionaire now seeking out maria find maria this is a billionaire now seeking out maria to tina and be friending her and maybe the relationship carried further we don't really know tina and be friending her and maybe the relationship carried further we don't really know but. he did it that it is the that her to pursue her and then at the top he told him to do this and to do at least this is true at least his it's of his opinion painting that the person that gave this order or there was none up there was none other peter peter struck so we can see a lot of dots connected for maria tina to the russia gate hoax you know examine and we can see a lot of dots connected for maria bettina to the russia gate hoax you know examine but it didn't work out all of the allegations made against her you know honey but it didn't work out all o