the attorney general started the first investigations and that eventually morphed into patrick fitzgerald'stigations and we've seen what happened with that. so it was that -- dick mel created his son-in-law and, in essence, planted the seeds that destroyed him. >> let's talk a little bit about why rod blagojevich had dreams of becoming the president and why they were actually somewhat plausible? if you rewind seven years or so in illinois and you were to say there's a young politician, the young democratic politician who's going to become president of the united states before the year 2010, everyone would have thought you were talking about rod blagojevich. and, you know, wait we've been talking about him, it sounds like he's just this mope. he's like the character you see on the "saturday night live" impression. but, in fact, blagojevich had a great deal i believe of political skill. i don't mean necessarily governing skill but political skill. and could you talk -- >> that's the problem. >> yeah, exactly. but can you talk about -- i mean, he is -- he's not just a cartoon mope. there's a l

that was the whole key to the -- what patrick fitzgerald called a criminal enterprise which was for the benefit of personal benefit and political benefit of rod blagojevich. so when you put that national fundraising operation together, everybody who -- not everybody but most people who wanted to participate in illinois government got part of their access by contributing to that political campaign. and that's really what sent him down the road to ruin. >> what's the model for that? you have to sell yourself to a national audience and you can't as governor of illinois raise enough money to run a national presidential campaign. we saw how much they had to spend -- >> well, he was doing a pretty good job. >> right. but you can earn enough money to win reelection, which he did, against a battered republican party in illinois. but the idea that you could raise -- raise your way into the white house, that seems crazy to me. >> what he wanted to do was build this national fundraising operation. and, for instance, when he talked to joe kerry, one of the people who wound up being indicted and con

the question about withholding vice-president chaney's testimony to patrick fitzgerald, that came up as a political question. tell us about the legal policy, how would you assess the administration's efforts? >> just to start off, it is nice to see so many young friends, and that at scan mentions was certainly an honor. they have one on one conversations, and the short history, many of you have given me advice and insight and support and i appreciate that. some of you are the part of the it ministration, many of you, the next 4 or 8 years. please stay engaged, your talents, your energy, you really sustain us. being here and continued, please continue. there are so many people who would say to me, how are and in georgetown? , what is going on, when are you guys going to release more torture memos? if there is a net shall. 0 l. lewis tells us what the law is, tells us what the law should be. it serves as an outside counsel to executive branch agencies. 0 lp spearheads of oil day's policies, we have had judges in the white house, we coordinate the rulemaking, but in terms of poli policy

there's this case about withholding vice-president cheney's testimony to patrick fitzgerald that came up as a question. tell us about the role of the office of legal policy in driving information policy in particular and how would you access the new administration's efforts -- assess the administration's efforts to open up the government for people? >> i have to say that it is good to be here and see so many old friends. i have been on some panels at past conventions and that has been an honor. what i have enjoyed is the time between sessions when we get to have a one-on-one conversations and there are so many friends who are here and the relationships that we have built over the short history of acs. as i have continued on, many of you have given me advice and insight and support and i certainly appreciate it. for if some of you are part of the administration. many of you will join it over the course of the next four or eight years. if there is something i would say, it would be please stay engaged. we need your ideas and talent. we need your energy. you really do sustain us. thank y

so there certainly is a long history of political corruption, but i do think i would like to patrick fitzgeraldid when he said this was pay to play a on steroids with rod blagojevich so he did manage to take into any level. >> the question when talking about the answer to this and the previous question is whether blagojevich is going to try his harper valley pta moment as somebody put it, we're wondering when he gave his speech of the end of his impeachment trial whether he was going to stand up there in the harper valley pta song when a woman says i may have done the wrong but you and you and you can maquis did that. >> some of that but only a little taste of what my,. >> we are waiting for the buck. >> the question is will he do that but is he going to put this into, that seems to be his version. everyone does this all along. >> absolutely and i thought he was much too harsh. i thought the speech before the senate when it there were about to engage him and throw him out of office was masterful. and showed what rod blagojevich, the talent of what he could have been, a terrific speech i thought

there certainly is a long history of political corruption, but i do think, i did like what patrick fitzgeraldaid when he said this was paid to play on steroids with rod blagojevich. so i think he did manage to take it to a new level. >> so i guess the question, when you talk about the answer to his question and the previous question, is whether blagojevich is going to try his harper valley pta mode as somebody put it in. they were wondering when he gave a speech at the end of his impeachment trial is going to stand up there with the harper valley pta and say yeah, and they run with you and you and you. >> he did that. >> but only a little taste of what might come. >> read the book. >> but the other question, is he going to do that. but the other question is is he going to be able or can we put this into sort of well, this is how business got done in illinois. on steroids, but just a version of what everyone else had been doing for a long time. that seems to be his view of the actions of a longtime. don't get me wrong, everybody does is. everyone did this all along. >> absolutely. and i though