joining me to make it easier for you is patty hasen, the president of the non-profit resource, clarify, and thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> you've got to face t don't put your head in the sand, look at the bills. >> open the envelopes and oep the e-mails, today a lot of people get their statements e-mailed and it's probably easy to delete because you don't want to face it. open that e-mail, make sure you read your statement and understand what you owe. >> and lay it out, look at the due dates, right? >> right, you want to create a list, right? how much you owe, who you owe it to and what the interest rate is on that card. that's going to help you develop a plan to pay it back. and the plan has to include the interest rate, right? you want to pay off the ones with the high interest rates and some of those, the store credit cards that are really high, you need to pay those off first. >> if you're looking at credit card statement, even if it's 18%, some credit cards can be higher, department store ones tend to be a little higher. 18 and you've charged up $1,000 on 18%,