paul fain of the news site, inside higher ed, joins me now. so tell us, why is i.t.t. shutting down? how important are they in the pantheon of the for-profit school system? >> they're one of the biggest, one of the oldest, most-established for-profit companies with campuses in 38 states. they used to have campuses in 38 states. so definitely one of the most important players. several tough years, hemorrhaging students and revenue. then they got hit with several investigations and lawsuits, federal and state, some serious charges, consumer financial protection burrow, the s.e.c. both pursuing them legally, and then you had an acreditor raising questions about their record keeping, and the fed finally said, too much risk for those students and taxpayers. there were just several sanctions that were really the end of the company. >> sreenivasan: what about those 35,000 students? what do they do? >> they are in a tough bind. they have two major choices. they can elect to have their debt forgiven. all the aid they received, the loans, they can have forgiven by the federal go