cbs monday. >> we have pope paul vi there in time after vatican ii. he was the one who implemented the whole thing. we talked too about how it was. i wanted to mention that, when there's a change of power like that, there's always a scrambling. there's always a trying -- people want to change. here's our chance to pile on or do whatever. not in a bad way but just in a human way. we have a new archbishop here and it's happening. it just does. >> it's all that scuffling going on. >> what are we going to go? we talked about a little bit about the power. how did the priest hear except vatican ii? how were they ready for it? >> many of them were very open. others said it's what the church says. with no preparation at all, they simply all facing the people. we just start on this. the people weren't -- others tried to be mull if i their people and so nothing changed. nothing really big happened. they were underestimating the tremendous scope of vatican ii and also mostiszeing their people. >> nobody said anything about vatican ii other than the current pope.

in fact, they did back in paul vi time. he had a commission of catholics that said the natural law argument makes no sense. alfredo otobiani the head of the holy office said "we can't change that. pyus i i said that that was an eternal truth. if you use contraceptives you'd sin and go to hell and if you didn't you'd get seven or eleven children. but we can't go back now and say decades after, oh, we were wrong, you're not in hell, come back out. you didn't have to have those children, cancel them. so he added to the encyclical of piousxi his own. they're very hard to back off of so even though catholics pay no attention to that in this last election the bishops in america used contraception to oppose obama saying he was going to ensure the funding of contraceptives and you'll notice more catholics voted for obama than didn't. so they were not paying attention to the bishops as they were not paying attention to the pope. but the pope's not paying any attention to them, they are. and that's a long standing problem and i don't

in 1975, paul vi instituted the age limit of 80 and expanded the number of voting cardinals. hn paul ii and benedict xvi further expanded and internationalized the college of cardinals. another factor for the conclave is the proliferation of the media, which challenges the vow of secrecy and perhaps also shapes the choices. inevitably, observers are making up their short lists of candidates, lists that have already been revised many times. and beyond the politics and the process and the pageantry, for the world's catholics, the conclave is ultimately a holy endeavor. i'm kim lawton, reporting. >> pope benedict's resignation is to take effect on february 28th. the college of cardinals is expected to convene in march, which means that a new pope will almost certainly have been chosen by easter. >>> in other news, in his state of the union speech this week, president obama addressed several issues of concern to many faith groups. the president pushed for stricter gun control, comprehensive immigration re and protections for senior and protections for senior citizens, the middle c

that the next leader of the catholic church has something of john the xxiii in him and the birth of paul vi and the role of women in the churnl. lots needs to be done. god bless our next pope. god bless the decision on how to pick him. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politics nation" with al sharpton starts right now. >> thanks, chris: and thanks to you for tuning in. >>> tonight's lead, republicans pass the buck. on this case, 85 billion bucks. with just one day to go until massive spending cuts kick in, republicans have a new idea and it's a doozie. they never wanted a balanced approach that the president wanted. some cuts, some revenues increases, nope, they want just cut, cut, cut. so, today, they decided their new plan would be make the president decide which programs get axed. now, why would they want to make the president wield the ax? well, maybe they've turned on their local news in their home districts to see that the country is furious about the cuts. >> senior action runs meals on wheels ain hastings and provide a hot meal to 80 seniors. but the popular

. >> the majority on pope paul vi's own commission on that agreed with what you just said.'m sure the three of us completely agree on it, but i just don't think the electors in that room are going to be thinking about the kind of things that we're thinking about. >> every catholic watching this show, and about a third of the people watching this show are catholic, they know they have not heard a sermon since the 1950s against birth control. >> public religion research institute that i do some work with, 70% of church going, weekly church going -- >> 70%. >> 70% disagree with the church's teaching on this. so it's clearly true here. it's true throughout western europe. just to go back to the punditry for a second, on the ouellet matter -- >> he's the quebec guy. >> who i should be for. there's a great saying among the folks in the vatican, after a fat pope, a thin pope. after a thin pope, a fat pope. he is too much like benedict, and he might look like benedict light. i'm trying to knock down all the front-runners because i think our best hope for a pope like john xxiii is -

usually it happens in the paul vi auditorium during the winter. it's outside. moved outside to accommodate the large crowds that are there. we'll see the popemobile move through st. peter's square so everyone can get a glimpse of the pope. i understand it's going to make two laps. and then the pope will go up on a stage set on top of the steps. there he will deliver his address in italian. afterwards, he will speak in several major languages. usually, he acknowledges some groups that are there. what is going to be different today is typically in a papal audience, there are people who come up and meet the pope and kiss his ring. that is not going to happen today because there have simply been too many requests today, chris. >> ann thompson, who will continue to be at the vatican for us throughout this coverage. ann, thank you. i want to bring in our panel, who will be joining us the next hour and a half. father robert barron. in rome, liz lev, an expert at duquesne and nbc news analyst. george is the nbc news vatican analyst and the author of the book, evangelic

>> it's interesting, in our lifetime, pope paul the vi was in his 80s and pope john paul ii was 85. what the cardinals are seeking in someone to take pope benedict's place, in my mind, we watched pope john paul become a grandfather. pope benedict walked out on the world stage as a grandfather, it was a interesting and different experience of his fatherly qualities, as you know, from having met him, the gentle kind way that he had. but, you know, i think that depends on what the college of cardinals is looking for. pope benedict was a teacher and he spent his time teaching and he taught well and with great clarity. so, it is a matter of preference of the college of cardinals and as we believe in the church the working of the holy spirit. >> we will stay in close touch with you, bishop. thank you so much, and thank you for everything that you have done. thanks for inviting me to catholic university, i appreciate it and thank you for coming here to the situation room. >> it was great to be with you, wolf, you take care. god bless. >> a guy with a unique haircut gets an invitation to si

as john paul ii was a very different figure from the pope briefly who preceded him john paul i and paul viill be change in tone and style, probably not so much on substance. >> john, thank you. i want to bring in reverend reese. what is the process, the procedure this go around? how do we know when the next pope will be announced? >> well, the process is all very well laid out. there will be a conclave call 15 days after the pope resigns. in fact, i mean, under law, it doesn't make a difference whether the pope died or whether he resigned, the same process goes into effect. so there will be a conclave 15 days after the pope resigns, and the college of cardinals will meet. and they will elect a new pope. >> what does a pope do after he resigns? do you consult? what does he do? >> we haven't had that since the 15th century. so it's really kind of hard to tell. my guess is he's going to try and lead a very quiet life, he's a quiet person, who was thrust on the world stage. i think he'd love to go lock himself in a room and read books and write and enjoy the rest of his years praying for his p

to speak, in getting the work done during the papacy of john paul ii and also during the papacy of paul vi. so i think his own experience with what it means to have someone at the helm who is not up to 24/7 because of his own physical limitations probably influenced him. he knew more than others what this really meant because he was right there in the vatican. >> there are some big issues the catholic church is dealing with now, if the new pope is italian, as italians will be pushing for, or american, as americans are pushing for, is it more likely that the church will bend on perhaps allowing more women to use birth control? >> i don't think that's a major issue right here at this point. i think, when the pope is elected, you're looking at what's going on in the world. that is what influences the papal conclave. so we have intense problems regarding peace, particularly in the middle east. we have the problem of lack of church unity, the sismatic groups the holy father has worked very hard to bring back into the fold. and you have the poverty. he went to africa to highlight the terrible po

the stretch limousine carried pope paul vi during a 1995 visit to new york city.the first time a reigning pope ever came to the u.s. >>> congress has six days to avoid the sequester impacts. evenly split between defense spending and domestic spending. they total $1.2 trillion over ten years, equal to $500 billion in the defense department budget, $1 billion to fema. more than $500 million in loan guarantees to small businesses would be cut. joining me now, msnbc contributor and managing editor joann reid and white house "washington post" reporter. joann we'll go ladies first here. what is the convention am wisdom on this? will an agreement be reached? >> you know what, the irony and the problem is on the republican side there are some republicans i think who kind of favor the sequester in a way. this is a way to get the austerity that they've long wanted, big sweeping budget cuts. but at the same time, on a lot of local levels you have districts where those defense cuts are really going to bite. so you have some folks that are hoping for carve outs or hoping to so

>> you know what pope paul vi said, he died in '78. so he said what you just said. that very often the way we do things, the way we live has more of an impact than what we're saying. and if what we say doesn't gel with how we're living, it's counter productive. that's what's so tragic when you have leaders, when you have shepherds, even when you have ordinary catholics on the street who aren't living up to what they profess on sundays, that causes scandal up and down the block, right? >> reporter: you know, 63% or so of american catholics look at this sex abuse scandal in the priesthood and they say that pope benedict xvi, although he instituted zero tolerance, he met with abuse victims, he apologized, did only a poor to fair job of dealing with it. and i want to ask you yourself, because you've had to deal with all of this, you were deposed last wednesday. you were the archbishop of milwaukee and one of the most egregious violations happened there. >> before my time. >> reporter: before your time. many would say that you did your best

>> well, it's interesting, you know, in our lifetime, pope paul vi was in his 80s. as in his 80s when he died. pope benedict, he's almost 86. you know, it depends, it depends. what the cardinals are looking for. what the cardinals are seeking. in someone to take pope benedict's place. you know, in my mind, we watched pope john paul become a grandfather. pope benedict walked out on the world stage as a grandfather. and was just an interesting different experience of his fatherly qualities, as you know from having met him, you know the gentle kind way that he had. but, you know, i think that depends on what the college of cardinals is looking for. you know, pope benedict was a teacher. and he spent his pontiffate, his papacy, teaching. he taught well and with great clarity. so it's a matter of preference of the college of cardinals and also, as we believe in the church, the working of the holy spirit. >> we'll stay in very close touch with you, bishop, thank you so much. thanks for everything that you've done. thanks for inviting me to catholic university, once between

you know, what the pope -- what paul vi said, jesus only ordains maryellen -- ordains male priests. one was a priest then. there were women leaders, very high leaders. paul talks about one as an apostle. he was talkedded about one as his coworker,s same he said of timothy and titus and others, and the original agape meals were in households. paul address the households. household church was the original church, and the hostess there was the presider. she was not a priest because there were no priests, but as time went on, the general prejudices of the society insected the church, and they are hanging on to them longer than others because the church now pretends to be changeless. once a bad idea gets in, even if it's from a fairly acceptable thing at the time, it's very hard to extrude it, you know, because of the church. they claim they never change. people said, well, should we have women priests? i hope not. i don't want priests. i want women leaders. we are getting them. in my church that i've been going to for 33 years, it's a campus church at northwestern university, and as all

pope paul the vi a warned satan had earned the temple of god. working to eradicate the stain of abuse and apologizing publicly to victims and their families. in a move long overdo he recently fired the morally challenged cardinal roger mahoney of the los angeles diocese. it must be said, however, that while the church enemies have warmed to the scandal, too often catholics and n name only have used it as an excuse to ignore the teachings of the faith they long abandoned. and benedict's rest anything says the authority of the church is ambiguous. speculation runs high who will lead more than a billion catholics. although a fruitless guessing game often fueled by conspiracy theories. whoever is chosen will face grave sin. just last week, there is a report that pope benedict commissioned in the wake of leaks, butler leaked some of his private papers. the sealed reported authored by three cardinals has already exploded and said to have hastened benedict's departure, with stories of homosexual conduct within the holy city. next month, when the white