appointed paul volker -- i remember that very well. panama, which was one of the toughest issues any president -- five of your predecessors had failed to solve that problem with the panama canal. you took it on and by all accounts, the canal today is a huge success. of security, economically, every possible way. do you have any reflections on that? pres. carter: it was the most difficult issue i faced in my life, more difficult than the elected president. it was the most courageous decision made by a u.s. congress in history. votedwere 20 senators who for the canal treaties in 1978 who are up for reelection that year. only seven came back. the attention was almost as great in 1980. i think this has been one of the best examples on the sincerity and the competence of the united states and supporting human rights of a tangible nature that i can remember, because to give was a crimeal against the united states it. in my opinion, it was the right thing to do. reagan almost overthrew gerald ford as a republican nominee in 1976 and allow the

[laughter] john: maybe that same day or another meeting that same year, paul volker was here and we went over had a few drinks and jim tobin came and i remember-- it was 1982, a difficult period and i remember very well jim asking paul, why don't you over -- lower interest rates? do not setr said i interest rates, i said the money supply and that was the end of the conversation. period, also crossroads a period where the said was -- fed was turning. somewhat related to where we are down. do withwhat was able to his colleagues was turned the fed from a very discretionary stop, go, stop policy which was distracted in the economy did not do well -- and disruptive and and i do well and it was tall. crossroads are always tough. and i think plus all of the research that people have done have led me to the conclusion that we really need to strive rules-based policy because that is what paul volcker did. he was very ad hoc in the 70's -- 1970's when i started the subject and a change in the economy actually performed remarkably well, the great moderation. i was like the word along b -- long boom