david pecker. we'll be right back how would really happened sunday at nine on cnn. >> you know, when i take the bike out like this, all my stress is just melt away. >> i hear that is bad. boy can fix anything yeah. >> tough day at work, nice cruises sorts. >> you write out when i'm writing, i'm not even thinking about my painful cavity he shouldn't ignore it. and every time i get stressed about having to pay my bills hop. on the bike, man, i'll come on. >> you got to pay your bills. >> you don't have to worry about anything when you're protected by america's number one motorcycle insurer? >> well, you definitely do those things aren't related so that is a vibrating pain at morgan stanley old-school hard work meets ball new thinking to help you see untapped possibilities and relax leslie, work with you to make them real okay. yeah, we got orders coming in, starting a business is never easy. a star near eight months pregnant that's a different story. sorry. >> i couldn't slow down. we were starting a

>> david pecker?some partings of what he was saying were credible, but he was definitely more inclined to help the former president. >> definitely sounded pro trump throughout his entire thing. >> what was it he said or what was it about his demeanor, hope, that made you think he wanted to help donald trump? >> throughout his entire interview basically, he was talking a lot about, oh, yes, they were, we were referring to the boss, mr. trump. and lots of pro trump language throughout his entire argument. and social studies class, we learn a lot about bias and bias in the media and bias in all different sorts of stories. so it was very interesting to hear how someone actually in court was showing the same bias that we've seen in the media sometimes. >> testimony, also -- >> go ahead, owen. sorry. >> okay. his testimony also reflected how crucial this whole case michael cohen is and will be when he takes the stand in a few weeks. >> i have to ask you both very quickly, what was your impression of the for

david pecker said, yes, it was later david pecker testified, we didn't want the story to embarrass mr. trump or embarrassed or hurt that campaign prosecutors are going to say, look, the motive was campaign donald trump's team is going to say well, there was also a personal motive here for donald trump's. so look for that on cross now eventually they enter into a contract with karen mcdougal, ami, david pecker enters into a contract that donald trump himself was not part of. and david pecker said the purpose of that agreement was to disguise the true nature of the contract. they didn't want the public learning about karen mcdougal's allegations. now that brings us to sort of between chapter two and chapter three. the big thing that happens is the access hollywood tape came out and the jury's not seeing that tape, but they've learned about it. this is where donald trump gets caught on camera talking about, you can grab them by the blank, et cetera. we remember that tape and pecker said, when that takes it came out, it was very embarrassing, very damaging. again, to the campaign importan

pecker's testimony resumes thursday. trump today complaining he's stuck in court while president biden is out on the campaign trail. >> they're keeping me in a courtroom, that's freezing, by the way, he's out campaigning and i'm here in a courtroom sitting here, sitting up as straight as i can all day long, because you know what, it's a very unfair situation. >> reporter: before today's testimony, prosecutors accused trump of repeatedly violating the judge's gag order, attacking witnesses, even potential jurors. defense attorneys insisted trump is complying, but the judge interjected, you're losing credibility. there was no immediate ruling from the judge, but david, prosecutors said it's almost as if trump is trying to force the judge to throw him in jail, and tonight, sources told abc news the secret service is actually

pecker said he got a call from the white house were trump invited pecker to the white house for a thankk to his wife and let them know. pecker's wife did not want to go to washington. trump said bring your friends and associates. this is your dinner. pecker went and brought business associates hauer and rod stein attended. this is the very latest as pecker is back on the stand. your thoughts as we lean on any further detail from inside the courtroom? >> great question, it's great to be on with you it's setting forth the foundation. the prosecution wants the jury to believe that former president trump had laid out this relationship with pecker for this campaign so this catch and kill which he had already set forth in the fundamental days leading up to today with pecker's testimony now we are focusing on the thank you. like thank you for doing this catch and kill and for doing these catch and kill's on those three stories. stormy daniels, cate macdonald and the doorman. here is what the prosecution wants a jury to believe. >> john: we should point out howard and rothstein, dylan howard wa

pecker yes, it was. steinglass, then asked, were you aware that expenditures made by corporations for the purpose of influencing an election are unlawful? yes, pecker responded. then steinglass, the prosecutor, asked pecker why he bought mcdougal's story. pecker said, we purchased the story so it wouldn't be published by any other organization. we didn't want the story to embarrass mr. trump or embarrass or hurt the campaign. all of this laying the groundwork for what happened later in 2016 when pecker heard the story about trump and adult film star stormy daniels. keep in mind, pecker heard about it, one day after the "access hollywood" tape exploded the presidential campaign landscape, when it was released and made public. the trump campaign was in frantic damage control mode. pecker said that cohen in that time period asked him to pay for stormy daniels' story and even in that frantic damage control moment pecker refused, telling cohen, quote, i'm not purchasing the story. i'm not going to be involved

pecker's in his 70s, et cetera. trump has his arms folded across his body watching pecker answer his attorneys questions specifically, he was poking holes in the memory of where trump was in august 2015 and you remember that's that consequential meeting between pecker and cohen and trump setting up the whole scheme and the defense here is clearly trying to say you're not quite remembering if trump was in town or not in town. just trying to bring in this cloud of suspicion around what he presented jury in the prosecution's time in pecker said earlier when presented with the fact that stormy daniels had this story out there, this adult film star in directors alleging that she had had an encounter with mr. trump. pecker testified, quote, i said, i don't want the national enquirer to be associated with porn star. >> he added that walmart was the main distributor of the magazine and it would be very bad for ami, the publishing company that produces the national enquirer, pecker also said, if anyone was going to buy it in

david pecker says yes.ever say he was concerned about melania or how ivanka might feel. pecker says no, he invited me to the inauguration and he was going to get a cell phone number. that never transpired. pecker says he did not go to the inauguration and he asked his wife, and she said she didn't want to go either, so they didn't go. this is pecker saying this was -- part of the defense argument has been this is about protecting melania. he didn't want to embarrass me -- melania. and pecker said it was more about the campaign. >> it's on two levels. legally it's important. to have the campaign finance why it's a felony, this is so called john edwards defense, i did this for my family, not the campaign. the principal with the agreement with the other principal, david becker, donald trump. to have him say this was about the campaign, not his personal family goes directly to the legal theory. on the emotional side, just imagine you're a juror, you're in court, donald trump is sitting there, somebody who he's

pecker is going to be talked to. they're going to say, you know, you're just supporting the candidate you wanted. that's what magazines do, right? >> kaitlan, how do you think it did on this? i'm not sure that's what all magazines do not way if people would like to have a word, but i think it's watching all of play out. it's fascinating to see david pecker sitting there in testify in this way, and they're laying the groundwork to get to something bigger obviously, with all of this and with his relationship with trump. but he met marlow. he met trump visited mar-a-lago, met him in the 80s, worked with them in the 90s, worked with him when the apprentice became a show, trump would send him apprentice ratings and they would publish them in the national enquirer. and david pecker was kinda saying it was this mutually beneficial relationship between the two of them, this two-way street. and then you he was helping promote trump. and then when he got closer to the election, he was helping bury negative stories which he had

pecker said yes. so their counter and cutting against the standard operating procedure, obviously, if this was national enquirer gold and they would have made a fortune off the headline. they just decided not to publish it and that was the point prosecutors we're trying to push that. this was for donald trump's candidacy, not for the bottom line. that's prosecution gold. i mean, to get him to admit that i was willing to do something that was contrary to my bottom line. >> to help a candidate that's exactly what they need to say. >> and that's what the prosecution's trying to do in order to make michael cohen irrelevant, frankly, could you just explain to me because i don't understand how is that a crime? how's that an element of the crimes are the elements that the judge is going to read after the summation. >> so this crime is a bump up crime, right? it's basically a misdemeanor plus so the misdemeanor is if you falsified business records, i think everybody thinks that's the easier part to prove. all

pecker said he asked to asked cohen who would foot the bill. he responded the boss, meaning trump, will take care of it. meanwhile, trump's legal challenges expanded overnight.

david pecker responded, that's right. of course, at the heart of the charges here, falsifying business records, is specifically the stormy daniels payment and the reimbursement of michael cohen by donald trump. and what david pecker is now saying is that he never intended to be a part of the stormy daniels story here in the first place. another aspect of this here is the fact that they are going through some of the prior meetings that david pecker had testified about. one of them that they're currently discussing now is david pecker on january of 2017 walking into a trump tower meeting, just weeks before donald trump was sworn in as president, a meeting that included the likes of reince priebus, sean spicer and james comey and they're getting into the gritty details of exactly what david pecker's role is a part of all of these meetings was and the extent to which donald trump was using these opportunities to ensure the silence of some of these key figures. jose? >> this is a continuing issue, this meeting and as well as o

pecker. and when he says, for instance, that trump was detail oriented or micromanager, how would he know that? he would know that because they have spent so much time together. he would know that because they have discussed business together. so, you're laying the foundation in many ways, and, by the way, you're not just doing it through mr. pecker. he's, you know, witness number one on days number one and two. they're going to be many more witnesses, and they're going -- the prosecutors are going to ask all the witnesses how do you know the things that you say you know? what is the basis for it. all of that foundational testimony tells the jury in essence, you can trust the government's case. >> so, catherine, the prosecution has been drilling down on alleged conspiracy. hatch, between these three guys that now infamous trump tower meeting, and, vaughn talked about this, as part of that, they allege pecker agreed to be the eyes and ears of the campaign. the eyes and ears. publish flattering

pecker replied, yes. what's the significance there? >> so, chris, at the end of the trial, the judge is going to instruct the jury that the defense does not have to prove anything. it's the prosecution that has the heavy burden of proof, so mr. bove's shot is to plant reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. so his cross examination is trying to suggest to the jury that the prosecution's first witness is compromised, and thus, he's not credible. if he admits to wrongdoing, then he's going to lose money from this deal with trying to sell the "national enquirer" and that's also why mr. bove is focused on pecker's non-prosecution deal. he wants the jury to think that pecker is basically marching to alvin bragg's orders because pecker doesn't want to go to jail himself. so that's also why he told the jury that trump thanked -- that trump had thanked mr. pecker a few days before the inauguration even though mr. pecker earlier told the fbi that trump had not thanked him. so chris, for an effective cross exa

pecker said, yes. steinglass said, but at the time you entered into that agreement, you had zero intention of publishing that story. pecker said that's correct. and the prosecutor said, and despite the fact that publishing that story would have helped your bottom line, you killed the story because it helped the candidate donald trump. pecker said, yes. so their counter and cutting against the standard operating procedure, obviously, if this was national enquirer gold and they would have made a fortune off the headline. they decided not to publish it and that was the point prosecutors we're trying to push this was for donald trump's candidacy, not for the bottom line. that's also prosecution gold. >> i mean, to get him to admit that i was willing to do something that was contrary to my bottom line to help a candidate that's exactly what they need to say. >> and that's what the prosecution's trying to do in order to make michael cohen irrelevant, frankly. >> and could you just explain to me because i don

that's what pecker says. he said then a prosecutor had pecker confirm that the positive stories about trump were of mutual benefit? but stopping stories from being printed about trump, catching and killing stories that would have sold on the newsstand, but he killed them like karen mcdougal only benefitted the campaign and did not benefit the national enquirer. explain why that clarification was necessary because who the winner out of all this, when we look at the intent and what the purpose and goal is, you have to see, well, why are we doing this? and that's a big question. the jury's going to ask and you're going to get some of that direct evidence. but it also doesn't take a leap of faith to say, well, michael cohen's not benefiting. what is he necessarily getting directly david pecker now clears up that other piece. we're not getting in any extra money. we're not getting extra oversight. a. pardon me, more publicity for our articles. hr actually losing that publicity. so who is the person who's winning h

pecker answers yes. so clearly the idea, the challenged memory, challenge his credibility, do you think that's effective? >> it's minimally effective. i mean, they're suggesting that the prosecutor refreshed his memory and he's saying what the prosecutor wants, but remember, all these other celebrities you started to think maybe this is the david pecker show. with schwarzenegger, for example. all we know is what was in the tabloid media so we don't have any inside information, but it surely appeared that part of his motive was to protect his marriage because we saw publicly that when this all came out about his mistress and the child that his marriage broke out. well, i think they're going to be going there and suggesting with trump that there were alternate motives and the people are not able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was to influence the election. >> but that piece was something that the prosecution got out in front of yesterday in its questioning of david pecker and perhaps it will co

and david pecker. so we'll see if we could see a second witness begin to take the stand even tomorrow afternoon, even better. >> one of the questions one of the first questions they asked for comments was so ami isn't a charity organization, is you're making a profit off of all of this really making him seem like this is about greed and that's all to get the jury thinking that they don't like this person. >> yeah. important point. it was interesting. i thought that kaitlyn that david pecker testified about a call with two top white house staffers at the time who picks and sarah huckabee sanders would that reveal as someone who covered the white house and remembers sarah sanders being at the white house briefing room where obviously all three of us have sat at one point, she had to deny allegations about karen mcdougal citing conversations that she had with donald trump to hear that review still today that there was a call with the national enquirer tabloid king, hope hicks and sarah sanders while they

pecker, yes. and the fact that pecker agreed to not publish a story about a playboy model's year-long alleged affair with a presidential candidate is only further proof this is not just about doing good business because pecker admitted such a story would have been, quote, "national enquirer" gold. the prosecution asked, at the time you entered into the agreement, you had zero intention of publication even if it would have helped the bottom line. you killed it because it would have hurt president trump. to which pecker answered, correct. and before the court wrapped for the week, the jury heard from two other witnesses, first was trump's longtime assistant and gate keeper, rhona graff, for a brief line of questioning authenticating both karen mcdougal and stormy daniels' contact information were in trump's computer. during cross-examination, she did admit to hearing conversations about daniels potentially being thought of as a contestant for celebrity apprentice. the other witness is much more obsc

>> a friend of pecker.n a no-fly list which means you're a protected species and there are no negative stories about you, and harvey weinstein inked a deal to produce something called radar tv, which never came to fruition, but it contained a lot of meetings between dylan howard and harvey weinstein, and requested came my way for damaging information on women that went on to recuse harvey weinstein of sexual assault. >> let's talk about these various meetings that pecker winds up in the white house. >> there were a couple really memorable meetings that david pecker talked about today. one involved a meeting right after donald trump is elected. and he gets a call from donald trump's secretary saying the president-elect would like to see you. david pecker comes over to trump tower and he's a bit overwhelmed by all the security. and jared kushner sees him and taps him on the shoulder and says come with me. he escorts david pecker up to trump's office. he walks in and he sees this incredible assembly of men, li

pecker said today he does not recall that fbi testimony. trump's lawyers also exposed that business deals may have served as a motivation for pecker to enter a nonprosecution agreement with the southern district of new york for campaign finance violations. pecker testified many of the negative stories he published about trump's opponents already existed in the public domain. he said running negative stories particularly about former president bill clinton and former secretary of state lloyd clinton was good for his business. court started this morning with trump's attorneys clarifying that questions about hick's presence at a trump tower meeting in 2015, pecker said she was in and out of that meeting and her presence is important because it would show a level of campaign involvement in those talks. now just before lunch pecker also spoke about his experience suppressing stories about arnold schwarzenegger and he said he learned from that experience because there was an investigation after he did that so he was much more careful while dealin

pecker, that one point, mr. trump said in addition to the campaign millennials need to hear about this. it's only need is for that m&ms. yes, he was concerned about melannie. he was concerned about baron because it's gotta be that the expenditure is 100% for him to become president of the united states. i'm sorry, that's wrong. that's just not the law. it does not have to be 100%. i see jeffries agreeing with me. it does not have to be 100% campaign related. those campaigns should be both. >> i wanted to predict the campaign, but also i was worried about my wife. yes. >> the campaign has to be a substantial factor, does not but three, 100% and nobody would ever be able to prove that my view of david pecker today as he was a rock solid start for the prosecutors. you're not going to win your case that the first witness, it's a mistake to try to do that. i agree that if the case ended right now, we'd have no crime made out. >> so he's sort of setting the table exactly what i think he did. >> that was really the int

former "national enquirer" ceo david pecker. the defense spent hours trying to trip him up, catch him in contradictions, even introducing several instances where they say pecker's recollection of key events had changed over time. but the prosecution got the last word before lunch, getting pecker to admit that karen mcdougal's story would have been "national enquirer" gold, and his decision not to run it was purely to help donald trump. joining me now, nbc's vaughn hillyard outside the courthouse, former federal prosecutor paul butler is back with me. former assistant new york attorney general tristan snell is in studio, and jeremy soland, criminal defense attorney and former manhattan prosecutor. i'm going to start with you because you're a defense attorney and you're new to this table. it's a challenge, right, no matter how many times the defense keeps going back and back and back to david pecker, trying to show this wasn't about the campaign, which is what you did, this is standard operating procedure, they said that over and

what you heard from david pecker was about that agreement, that donald trump, david pecker, and michael cohen had to unlawfully influence the election. and they talked about and testified about this 2016 meeting where they anticipated that women may come forward and have damaging stories about trump that could hurt the campaign. david pecker testified that he was going to be the eyes and ears of this campaign, and that he was going to alert michael cohen and the campaign about anything that would be damaging so, to make sure those stories didn't see the light of day. however, what is really significant, for the conversations pecker testified, dealing directly with donald trump. both before the election and after the election. before the election, testified about talking to him about the story, trying to kill the story with karen mcdougal. after the election, he testified about conversations where donald trump thanked him for making sure those damaging stories did not see the light of day. the defense tried to act as though this was all business as usual, but that really backfired, becau

pecker said today he believed mr. trump or his company had paid daniels until cohen told him in december of 2016 that he was the one who paid her. prosecutors are seeking to prove mr. trump doctored internal business records to cover up that payment. pecker also testified trump was aghast when he saw stormy daniels on "60 minutes." >> was it hush money to stay silent? >> yes. >> reporter: pecker says trump called him. he says we have an agreement with stormy daniels that she cannot mention my name. trump later denied knowledge of the arrangement. on cross-examination, mr. trump's lawyers challenging pecker's credibility and business practices. at a campaign event earlier in the day, mr. trump addressed the testimony of his long-time friend. >> david has been very nice. a nice guy. >> did you give the payment to stormy daniels before the 2020 election? >> reporter: pecker also testifying today about a payment his company did make to former "playboy" model karen mcdougal to keep her alleged affair

david pecker is a narrator for this case.nd he's laying out the scheme, the multiple times that they killed any bad evidence against donald trump, and that they promoted bad evidence against his opponents. so you have this, you know, like you're building a house and now you have the framework. then you get to michael cohen, and it's already been built up, so he sounds sensible and okay. and then you have the documents. and you can't rebut the documents. donald trump signed those checks. you have the tape recordings. donald trump said, oh, yeah, i know, let's just use cash. no, no, no. so i think the defense really has its work cut out for it. one of the senior people on the watergate case, one said, you know, there are some cases that no one can win. there are some cases where you have to pound the table with the facts because you have the facts. some where you have the law, you emphasize the law, and some where you don't have anything. and even clarence darryl couldn't win the case. so i don't think blanch is clarence daro.

pecker's testimony to establish mr. trump had purposes other than election-related purposes to kill negative store eaves about him. he is a celebrity in the public eye. the reputation is outrageously important and how about with his family and wife. now he is sitting on melania's birthday having those stories come forward. he wanted the stories killed. they are extortionist efforts in order to gather money to instead of putting forward these false stories. he wasn't in support of the karen mcdougal scenario he seems -- >> julie: a headline reads alvin] wants the 2016 election on trial. in opening remarks to the jury, prosecutor argued that trump is guilty of falsifying business records with the intent to conceal an illegal conspiracy to undermine the integrity of a presidential election. your thoughts. >> that statement will come back, julie, and haunt the prosecution. they are unable to prove it. we have been in this trial for four days and my distinguished colleagues on this panel, there is no crime. the one thing a p

pecker responds yes. for the first time in the public record, we're getting david pecker corroborating what michael cohen for years has now articulated about that meeting. to note, hope hicks could well be a witness. pecker has testified hope hicks was in and out of this meeting. so we could very well get more corroborating testimony as it pertains to that exact meeting in trump tower in august of 2015. >> so chuck, is this the beginning of trying to build up the credibility of michael cohen? who was obviously a flawed witness. a convicted admitted perjurer. >> building up mr. cohen's credibility, andrea, might be a long walk through dry sand. he's a criminal and a liar, but that doesn't mean he's not telling the truth here at trial. so what you're really trying to do is corroborate him. and by the way, i have said this before, in many years as a prosecutor, i wish all of my witnesses were nuns and librarians but they're not the ones who are around when crimes are committed. this may sound trite and it ma

the answer from david pecker, quote, yes.nization. pecker said it was standard to suppress stories to help a friend or to use as leverage with a celebrity, this was catch and kill in order to influence a presidential election. now with court adjourned for the weekend, it's all systems go as we head into next week with key testimony still ahead. this is where we start the hour with some of our most favorite reports and friends. two people inside the courtroom today, investigative reporter susan craig and former u.s. attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman. lucky for us, andrew is still here as is lockland. sue, we start with you and your wonderful notebook. >> i have to say i think the most interesting part of today was the contination of that agreement that karen mcdougal had. donald trump's lawyers really tried to muddy the water on it. put some poison in the ear that karen mcdougal got something for the money she was paid she got a cover of a magazine and wrote some articles. then it really was pa

let's talk about the role of david pecker., once it's evaluated by the jurors -- he was the first witness and the feature witness of the trial so far -- is to take some of the burden to of michael cohen, who is obviously -- has damage connected to him being convicted and having admitted to perjury in the past and served time for that. >> right. that's baked into the calculation with michael cohen. he is a difficult witness. the government can't hug him too hard. he was donald trump's pick not prosecutor's pick. we are seeing this process that defense lawyer goes through in cross-examination. as vaughn said, they can't argue the evidence when they are cross-examining the witness. they are collecting coins that they hope will turn out to be valuable in closing argument when they can go back and argue to the jury. you can't really believe these people, they are not credible. >> the other thing, catherine, is this gag order hearing. judge merchan set it for next thursday. that's another week before dealing with the gag order. why

and just once that pecker talks about that, pecker talks about for a campaign, why this issue of women could be important. steinglass asked, can you explain to the jury how the topic of women in particular came up pecker says well, in a presidential campaign, i was the person that thought there would be a number, a lot of women come out to try to sell their stories because mr. trump was well-known and the most eligible bachelor and date of the most beautiful women. and it was clear based on my past experience that when someone is running for public office like this, it is very common for these women to call up a magazine like the national enquirer and try to tell their stories and this was before this was before the access hollywood tape. >> so the actual, the importance of the access hollywood tape in this is that it sort of the the drumbeat got much louder about indiscretions, changed everything. because remember stormy daniels was shopping around her story and was essentially offering to sell it. >> and they argued that the price was too high and said no, that they weren't intereste

he also tried to catch david pecker in some inconsistencies in here his testimony, david pecker has beenh prosecutors, the federal prosecutors and the district attorney's office for several years now. and so they were focusing on remember, the testimony about a january 2017 meeting at trump tower that david pecker walked into all donald trump was finishing up a meeting with some of with the f then cia director james comey and others and during this meeting is when david pecker testified that there was that he had a conversation so what donald trump donald trump thanked him for taking care of the doorman's story in the karen mcdougal story so donald trump's attorneys pressed him on notes from previous interview had given with investigators. and in that interview notes he said, according to the fbi's nodes, that david pecker told them that donald trump did not express any gratitude david pecker dug in on that today saying that the fbi knows were wrong and that his testimony over the past few days is that correct accurate testimony? so a lot of back and forth over different inconsistencies

helped more. >> david pecker definitely helped the prosecution out because they laid out david pecker hur laid out the foundation. he gave us the background information, and he also changed the narrative. this is not just hush money case. we're talking about the purpose of this money. of killing di stories. what's that help this campaign? and you're hearing it from someone that i think was relatable to this jury. i think the jury's going to find him credible, find, and believable. so mendel, he was engaging in these catching kill schemes and when we go into a supermarket used to see the national enquirer be like, oh, my god. and now we know how that gets to be the front page of the paper. you got the information that this is exactly how it worked out when it came to donald trump and when it came to michael cohen. and this is something that i think the jury in plain terms, are able to digest and they don't know how to apply this information. but shortly after closing arguments and though extra read back to get more of his testimony, read back, there'll be able to put it all together. s

pecker testified the plan was concocted at trump tower in 2015.mp and former fixer michael cohen allegedly asked him how he could help the campaign. he told them, i would be your eyes and ears, explaining the practice of catch and kill. the inquirer would buy the rights to any damaging story about trump and never publish i. prosecutors say that plan was the origin of 's $130,000 payment to former adult film star stormy daniels to keep her quiet about an alleged sexual encounter with trump, who denies it all. one example of catch and kill discussed in court today in bold a trump building doorman who was selling what turned out to be a fake story about trump fathering a son. pecker told the jury today he bought the story because of the potential embarrassment it would have to the campaign and mr. trump. >> david pecker is a very strong witness for the prosecution. he seems very solid on the stand. he certainly seems like he doesn't have any ax to grind with donald trump and seems almost apologetic for having to tell this story. >> reporter: on the s

trump, do you still like pecker? >> reporter: and then there was stormy daniels, the porn star at the heart of this case. trump charged with falsifying business records to conceal a hush money payment so voters wouldn't learn of their alleged affair. in the final weeks of the campaign, pecker said he told trump's fixer michael cohen daniels was shopping her story. he says cohen told him to buy it, but pecker refused, telling cohen, "i am not going to get involved with a porn star.

pecker. that's the jury like? what's donald trump like in that room? >> well, i would say everybody is really attentive today, which hasn't always as you know been the case. donald trump's attention kind of fluctuates. he has come in on days and been extraordinarily bored. but when the subject is donald trump and donald trump directly, he stands at attention and he was very curious to hear how david pecker would describe his relationship. i would say his expression for the most part was fairly even. he was neither snarling at pecker as he sometimes does when he heads down the aisle and exits the courtroom and sees the press assembled, but he wasn't exactly friendly. my best recollection of the interaction was when pecker came into the courtroom yesterday and donald trump was almost like leaning around the table so he could get as close a look at david pecker's face as he could. it was as if he were daring pecker, you knew me for decades. make eye contact with me now. and pecker didn't seem to

david pecker will be back.oke for about 30 minutes or so in testimony yesterday after those opening statements. anything that stuck out to you and just how important is he to this case? >> david pecker may in fact be the people's star witness and not michael cohen. david pecker may ultimately be a better witness for a few different reasons. number one, he has some baggage, but he doesn't have the baggage of a michael cohen. number two, he's going to lay the foundation of this pre-existing relationship and this catch and kill arrangement. and that's going to match up to a lot of documents that the state is going to introduce. number three, he was a friend of donald trump's. so his testimony may be more credible for that reason. he may be testifying about something we're not anticipating, and it might be about a direct conversation with donald trump, because, remember, that there were these entries in business records can be shown from the records with the state, with the people need to show is donald trump's inv

and just once that pecker talks about that pecker talks about for a campaign, why this issue of women could be important. steinglass asked, can you explain to the jury how the topic of women in particular came up pecker says well, in a presidential campaign, i was the person that thought there would be a number, a lot of women come out to try to sell their stories because mr. trump was well-known and the most eligible bachelor and date of the most beautiful women. and it was clear based on my past experience that when someone is running for public office like this, it is very common for these women to call it the magazine like the national enquirer and try to sell them their stories and this was before this was before the access hollywood tape. >> so the actual, the importance of the access hollywood tape in this is that it sort of the the drumbeat got much louder about indiscretions, changed everything. because remember is stormy daniels was shopping around her story and was essentially offering to sell it and they argued that the price was too high and said no, that they weren't int

pecker's testimony resumes thursday. trump today complaining he's stuck in court, while president biden is out on the campaign trail. >> they're keeping me in a courtroom that's freezing, by the way. he's out campaigning, and i'm here in a courtroom, sitting here, giving -- sitting up as straight as i can all day long, because, you know what? it's a very unfair situation. >> reporter: before today's testimony, prosecutors accused trump of repeatedly violating the judge's gag order, attacking witnesses, even potential jurors. and they said it's posing a very real threat to the trial. the defense insisted trump is complying but the judge interjected "you're losing credibi credibility." no immediate ruling from the judge but prosecutors said, david, it's almost as if trump is daring the judge to hold him in contempt and throw him in jail. and tonight, sources tell abc news the secret service is preparing for that possibility. david? >> david: aaron katersky leading us off here tonight. aaron, thank you. >>> we turn now to t

i introduce pecker and pecker comes on stage and he's a showman. he's a real showman. and then it brings out arnold crowd goes while and then he says, are and we're going to the end. congratulations on being governor and all that we're so thrilled you're still going to be connected, but with the magazines because we know so much a party you and as this competition shows that your life but you won't. we're not he's not going to pay an arnold says, i'm going to donate my salary to charity so the los angeles times does a deep dive into this relationship because ami, even though they weren't publicly traded stock, they were publicly traded bonds. so they had to do the same kind of reporting. and they found that a shell company and traced it back. and let's schwarzenegger. so he gets the money and then became obviously a major bone of contention in this piece to show the arnold was trying to make money off of being governor. the same way trump made money being president. so there was getting the goods on that was important. >> and so some of this came up, i mean, jeremy, yo

pecker, increase.en were you in touch with michael cohen after trump announced his candidacy? pecker, maybe daily. one of the most interesting things that happens today with pecker is what's been public facing trump, cohen, stormy, macdougal. what happened today was trump, pecker, and everybody else. i mean, the chart of the hush money election interference, corporate criminal enterprise totally changed. >> and you really see the impact of pecker and the "national enquirer" and how it plays into kind of the center hub of media, politics, consumerism, and the fact that he's -- obviously, there's legal decisions, but it's a shame. because there was a real, real -- he was -- he was more of a fiction than michael cohen in certain ways. >> and more influential. what dawned on me, i wondered from the outside, pomeranz's book, you wonder what bragg did with the time between the first team that looks at the facts and the charging of trump. clearly what they did, with 22 meetings with michael cohen, they corrob

with more testimony from david pecker. joining us now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, mia wylie, former civil attorney in new york, and hugo, covering washington and all things donald trump. joyce, i want to start with you. we've talked often about trying cases. when you have your case in chief, that primacy is how you do this. you start and end strong when it comes to the presentation of your witnesses. was it smart for the prosecution to start with david pecker thus far? >> well, it was smart, katie, and i am reminded that it was you who first said that you thought david pecker would be a great kickoff witness. i think that's the case, right? this is someone who doesn't have the baggage of a michael cohen, and who tells the origin story. he has now walked us through the election interference conspiracy. this is now patch and kill to elect trump. that's the case that the prosecution will put on. they've done a great job of giving the jury sort of the basics, the land marks and the road map that they'll move ahead on

as pecker retold that story. trump according to pecker's headed "how is our girl doing?" he said i want to thank you for handling the mcdougall situation and i want to thank you for the doorman situation. that was the doorman who was paid $30,000 by "national enquirer" for a story he had about trump apparently fathering an illegitimate baby which turned out to be completely false, but jonathan, they do seem to be zeroing in here. the prosecutor is on whether or not catching and killing the karen mcdougal story was to protect trump personally in his marriage or whether it was to protect the campaign. pecker says it was for the campaign. is there any vulnerability th there? >> there is not supposed to be legal vulnerability because there is no crime there. even if this was politically motivated, it's not a campaign contribution and a violation of federal law. the department of justice chose not to charge that. it sort of the general premise of zapping this dead misdemeanor back in the life. but the interesting thin

former president asking him, at that moment, according to pecker house, karen doing two which pecker says he replied, quote, she's doing well, she's quiet. everything is going good in another conversation, pecker said trump preferred to mcdougal is our girl. pecker also suggested that trump was angry about the interviews i did with her and stormy daniels when each broke their silence will bring you excerpts in our coverage tonight. >> in washington, the supreme court oral arguments were underway and the conservatives who as we know, have a majority on the court, appeared to embrace at least some form of criminal immunity for presidents, the liberal minority, by contrast, focused on the temptation that might be it for a future president if they have that what i'm i more worried about using to be worried about the president being chilled. i think that we would have a really significant opposite problem if the president wasn't chilled if someone with those kinds of powers, the most powerful person in the world with the greatest amount of authority could go into office knowing that there

we're talking about david pecker. amanda has been friends with donald trump's since the 80s, sitting right across from him in a witness. dan, just feet away from the former president as he stares him down, giving these dirty details about this catch and kill scheme in full detail. that is what we are expecting more for up tomorrow. and that all started of course, as we've learned from the testimony in august 2015, when they made that deal between trump, michael cohen and david pecker about being the eyes and the ears of a campaign and how they were going to find the stories that were negative about trump are salacious about trump bury them and promote stories that were positive ahead of that, campaign. they went into detail about that trump tower doorman who had a story about a woman who claimed that she fathered a child or he fathered a child of hers, and then before court wrapped up and david pecker was done for the day they got into the details about another playboy playmate, karen mcdougal, who of course alleged o

i felt like david pecker encapsulates maga world. he keeps drifting and completely dupes his followers, but then they said there and they still pay homage to him. talk about whether or not you think that this trial, even so far, has been moving the needle in any way in terms of public sentiment when it comes to donald trump. >> yeah, it reminds me of a story i was told by a new yorker whose parents worked for donald trump's contractors. he wasn't always good about paying the contractors and i said, did he pay her parents? he said no, and this guy said i had to sue to get their money. i said okay, well, they got $.50 on the dollar back in the guy says you know what? they voted for trump. why if they believe he cheated them on their money? he said because, if you cheat says he will cheat everybody else on behalf of america, cheat the rest of the world on behalf of america. there is an interesting dynamic. it's a view, of him as somebody who is able to manipulate the system to work the system, bypass the system, whatever it is, that see

pecker defiant at one point saying, i've been truthful to the best of my recollection. the tabloid mogul also undermining the idea mr. trump wanted to bury those stories about women to protect his family, a common refrain from the defense. instead, pecker said he believed it was all to protect his campaign. >> i do have to begin by wishing melania happy birthday. she's in florida. >> reporter: melania trump notably absent at trial. >> laura, does it appear prosecutors got what they needed from david pecker this week? >> lester, pecker is a useful witness for prosecutors to the extent he can testify about conversations about mr. trump that touch on his alleged scheme to influence the election, but what he can't offer, lester, is any evidence on the actual crime that the former president has been indicted for, which isn't a campaign finance violation. it's the way his payments to cohen were documented on his internal records. now, we'll see if other witnesses can speak more directly to that, lester. >> okay, laura, thank you. >>> president biden was also in new york today