when the pentagon papers came out, it was said was a new era.e government will not be allowed to keep secrets anymore, which they are not secrets anyway, in my opinion they're not going to be a little hold back the information. we had this great victory. here are some years later and we have obama who indicted six journalists. i said that is terrible in my book. >> look at the ap situation. he is trying to find a source who will be the seventh. secrecy has increased in the obama administration. we have gone nowhere in terms of that. what we do have a very good precedent that obama cannot stop the press before printing. that was good. but let's face it. in the digital age, no one cares about that anymore. in the digital age, the action is what the government will do after publication, after assange has published. what are the rules there? this is a new chapter in the history of the pentagon papers. >> we want to thank you, james goodale, for being here. >> you are entirely welcome. his book is, "fighting for the press: why the pentagon papers cas

the previous day, "the new york times" had started publishing the pentagon papers along four multivolume narrative history of a war in vietnam. this thing was never supposed to be made public, but it was stolen from the government by a whistleblower who thought the public should have access to the same information about the war the government had. it was smuggled to the "new york times" an the times made the difficult decision to publish the papers and when the times published the first installment on june 13th, 1971, the paper must have been waiting for the other shoe to drop. they knew what they were doing. how big a storm this was going to cause. they were waiting. they must have been waiting for what would be the inevitable response from the government, the demand they cease publication and all the rest, but they published this thing on june 13th and there was no response from the government. and that's because it turns out that on june 14th, the day after they started publishing the pentagon papers, there had been an angry, threatening telegram written by the attorney general to the

i look back through the facts of what happened in the pentagon papers and nobody home nothing there no damage now security you have to look at these claims with a jaundiced eye because after a period of time you take a look at them and there's no danger as you mentioned the obama administration has prosecuted more allegedly leakers then under the espionage act then all previous administrations combined. do you believe that leakers such as bradley manning should be subject to some discipline yes i do and i would think that if you work for this organization you used leaking their secrets you probably ought to be fired i think every organization or have a control over its employees and therefore i think that bradley manning should be disciplined and i think that the twenty years to which he's agreed probably probably is a good good sentence i think the question with bradley manning right now is these agreed to twenty and the government wants to give them life and i just wonder whether that's appropriate but i do believe every organization should be able to discipline its employee

smuggled to the "new york times," and the "times" made the very difficult decision to publish the pentagon papers despite the fact that it was classified materials. and when "the times" published the first installment on june 13, 1971, the paper must have just been waiting for the other shoe to drop, right? i mean, they knew exactly what they were doing. they now how big a storm this was going to cause. they were waiting. they must have just been waiting for what would be the inevitable super angry response from the government, right, the demand that they cease publication and all the rest. but they published this thing on june 13th, and there was no response from the government. and that's because it turns out that on june 14th, the day after they started publishing the pentagon papers, there had been an angry, threatening telegram written by the attorney general to the "new york times" demanding that they cease publication of these documents but the fbi accidentally sent the telegram to a fish company in brooklyn instead of to the "new york times," and so what the "new york times" heard the day

i look back through the facts of what happened in the pentagon papers and nobody home nothing there no damage now security you have to look at these claims with a jaundiced eye because after a period of time you take a look at him and there's no danger as you mention the obama administration has prosecuted more a legit leakers than i under the espionage act than all previous administrations combined. do you believe that leakers.

i look back through the facts of what happened in the pentagon papers and nobody home nothing there no damage now security you have to look at these claims with a jaundiced eye because after a period of time you take a look at them and there's no danger as you mentioned the obama administration has prosecuted more allegedly leakers then under the espionage act then all previous administrations combined. do you believe that leakers such as bradley manning should be subject to some discipline yes i do and i would think that if you work for this organization you started leaking your secrets you probably ought to be fired i think every organization or have a control over its employees and therefore i think the bradley manning should be disciplined and i think that the twenty years to which he's agreed probably probably is a good good sentence i think the question with bradley manning right now is these agreed to twenty and the government wants to give them life and i just wonder whether that's appropriate but i do believe every organization should be able to discipline its employe

least the pentagon papers during the vietnam war which showed the underlying reasons for the vietnam war that we're not we're being told what he was facing the same kind of sense that meaningless they swell around years in jail. for thirty or. forty i think i was there are. a whole series of outrageous actions probably led to charges were dismissed the case were racist. if we had a fair trial in this case you'd have to say that you know you have the case dismissed for outrageous government on the meaning would be free bradley manning. many americans a horrified how the us justice system has been deep based and un ruppel to is himself a victim of tool to access. i am deeply disappointed and frustrated by the present occasion of the u.s. government with regard to my attempts to visit mr manning with a trophy top attorney say he'd not only be innocent but a hero former president of the national lawyers guild moultrie cohen thanks so much for coming on you testified military hearings on the two to disobey on little folders how does this apply in. case of money he went to his superiors an

not so narrow but a discrete area which is the relationship of the press to national security pentagon papers case a case about national security now in that area nixon was terrible ok he happened to also be error terrible in the whole first amendment area obama by contrast ok in the first amendment area but not ok in national security why are you because obama as first of all pursued six leakers as the for respect thing he's done some bad thing is done is he pursued a guy who got a leak whose name is james rise and now what am i worried about he's also per suing julian assize i say if he pursues julian assize and says julia sonce is a coconspirator. then he'll be and succeeds he'll be worse than nixon because if them try to pursue the new york times and its reporters saying they were coconspirators nixon failed so while most succeeds where nixon failed you'll be worse than nixon so in this context you if you julian a songe as the publisher similar to the new york times similar to the guardian and all the other news outlets that then published what julian a songe disclose through wiki leaks r

the heart of the pentagon paper heirs case, and he will join us next. [ ♪ theme music ♪ ] >> michael: department seizure of ap phone records has outraged defenders of the first amendment. among them is james george counsel of the "new york times" when president richard nixon ordered the old gray lady to cease publication of the pentagon papers detailing america's involvement in the vietnam war and published excerpts that shows the american government in less than favorable light. but as counsel for the times goodell argued that publication of the pentagon papers fell under the freedom protected of the first amendment. judge murray gurfein wrote this. : what a beautiful way of putting it. the supreme court ultimately agreed 6-3. but as recent events have shown president obama does not suffer a con con con tankerrous press james goodell published a memoir of his time called "fighting for the press." he joins us tonight from new york city. welcome to "the war room," james. >> thank you glad to be here. >> michael: we are certainly glad to have you. let's go back to june 13, 1971 when pre

so if the pentagon papers helped the nation, have any press leaks that you've seen hurt the nation?, it's really hard to know the answer to that. the pentagon papers did help the nation to know more about how we got in the war in vietnam and what lies we've been told about it. but have there been more recent situations or information leaked which could have hurt national security? i can't deny it. i just can't come out myself with one example. it's the sort of thing we wouldn't read about much anyway. >> all right. floyd abrams, author of "friend of the court." thank you so much and good luck with the book. >> thanks a lot. >>> coming up, former congressman anthony weiner is in full campaign mode. in fact, he is participating in his first debate as we speak. we're watching to see if he'll be asked the question. our politics lead is next. >>> plus, it's called a threat to the entire world. one illness from the middle east is now responsible for a death in europe. could it spread to the u.s.? hett the projects will be done in a timely fashion and within budget. angie's list members ca

that readers get from your book well the purpose of the book is to learn the lessons from the pentagon papers which is hate and the president messes with national security is going to be in deep yogurt wake up america and wake up president obama the country is going to be in bad shape and president obama he don't go after julian assad and call him a coconspirator that's. so. you know it's a good idea if you say mr goodell thank you very much for your time thank you for inviting me. good lumber tour. to build the world's most sophisticated. fortunately doesn't sound anything mission to teach music creation why it should care about humans. this is why you should care only. the imperial presidency barack obama ran for president in two thousand and eight is an alternative obama has expanded institutionalized some of the more appalling aspects of the insecurity an obsessed state that he inherited in the name of security is obama casting aside the rule of law and other constitutional rights. more news today. these are the images. from the streets of canada. giant corporations are today. actually ou

>> it's been invoked three times since pentagon papers.administration has invoke it six times. it's supposed to be leveled at grave injury to united states leaks. we found out that eric holder signed offç very controversial search warrant that went after james rosen, personal emails and personal records and his parents' phone records. ÷ really investigation to be had here. holder says he is going to investigation himself. that is a joke. >> eric: and the lengths they are willing to go to perpetrate whatever their agenda is. >> target of the investigation was not rosen. it was steven kim. why. he was accused of leaking classified information which by the way is illegal and could jeopardize sources on the ground inside of a rogue country in which we have very few eyes and ears that has a nuclear capability. >> eric: i remember this. the "new york times" put it on the front cover. a leaked story about president obama having a kill list. that is leak? did they invoke the espionage act against who leaked that information and the "new york times

past government efforts to go after leakers have sometimes backfired, most notably with the pentagon paperste in the '70s. bob woodward's meeting with deep throat in a parking garage made for cinema drama. >> get out your notebook. there's more. >> reporter: but today, technology has changed the game. >> it is easier to track these leaks now than it used to be. if you e-mail someone, if you call on your cell phone it is much easier to establish that then than if you leave a flower pot on your stoop and go meet in a basement. >> reporter: there could be more to come. sources familiar with the case tell nbc news that prosecutors may be closing in on another suspected leaker who allegedly provided classified information to "the new york times" about the computer virus used to disrupt the iranian nuclear program. lester? >> michael isikoff at our washington newsroom, thank you. >>> overseas now to the conflict in syria. there are new fears tonight that the civil war raging there may be spilling over into lebanon complicating the push for peace. nbc's richard engel has this report tonight from i

. >> of all the great cover-ups in history, we're talking about the pentagon papers, the iran contra,gate and all the rest of them, this i said back in november 28th on fox, is going to go down as the most serious, most egregious cover-up in american history. people may be starting to use the i-word before too long. >> i-word meaning impeachment. >> worst than watergate, worst than pentagon papers. his senate colleagues, john mccain and susan collins pushed back against the discussion of impeachment. but inhov may find more of a welcome audience with republicans. >> a senior gop aide is quotes that boehner is obsessed with it. congressman darrell issa is the public face of the republican scandal hunt as chair of the house oversight committee. when questioned by david greg oh on "meet the press." issa had trouble explaining what exactly republicans are charging and who they believe is to blame. >> what is the big picture here? you're saying that the administration officials, these political advisers to the president or nonpolitical appointees, bullied the c.i.a. into saying what the --

the releaser of the pentagon papers supports manning. >> just before the meeting they put out a statement on facebook saying they had made their decision but that the idea this is an open meeting to reconsider is clearly a mistaken notion they made and was false. >> parade agoers finally decided to reschedule the meeting when they find a larger venue. >> backers have abandoned a plan to rename san francisco international airport after former supervisor harvey milk. the supervisor says he has given up the idea of putting the name change on the ballot. instead he is going to being look into naming a terminal after milk. renaming sfo who is cost more than $4 million. milk was the first openly gay supervisor and assassinated in 1978. >> delaware is now the 11th state to allow same-sex marriage, and the governor this sign add gay marriage bill into law to the cheers of supporters. the first marriages are performed after july 1. under the bill existing civil unions will be converted to marriages over the next year. >> some of the applause must be for mike's forecast? >> maybe, maybe for the dri

did he not read what the supreme court said about the pentagon papers?is staggering to me. >> i understand that and i'm not going to disagree with any of you but looking at it from the administration's perspective and i'm not here to carry their water or advance their ball they are on record as basically saying we want to stop these leaks. if they were sitting here they would say we are going at this from the point of view of the leaker. that is who we are really after. yes, we go in and subpoena the phone records. >> that's what the nixon administration said in 1971. >> transparent anyone else in history and this is the absolutely antithesis of that. >> they don't necessarily go after their own. >> during the campaign, steve, hold on, they made sure that information got leaked out to the press, to make the president look stronger. he had the kill targets and he made the decisions himself. >> that is the other thing. >> they didn't go after those things. >> i'll be the bill's advocate. things are deemed to be national security and leakers and things like

. >> david, the pentagon papers lawyer james goodell writes this in the daily beast.sking courts to treat journalists as criminals under is the espionage act has only been asserted once before holder started using it. the difference between nixon and holder is nixon failed in his effort. nixon could not create the precedent that reporters could be treated as criminals. holder has. he should resign. david? >> a couple of issues here. one, what i don't understand on the politics of this is why the administration has done something and then not defended it. if you're going to treat the leaking of classified information as a serious crime which it is and they believe it is and you gto to the lengths t do it, i don't understand an attorney general saying maybe we ought to take a different look at this. i just don't understand the wishy washiness of the administration including the president on this who on one hand says it's a very serious balance to effect and these are serious crimes who now wants to have all of this reviewed. i guess the second point is how then do you i

today, james goodale, "the new york times" general council at the time it decided to publish the pentagon paperscalled for holder to resign, saying the attorney generalç hs created a precedence, that reporters can be treated as criminals. bret? >> bret: one way for the president to escape would be to snatch control of the house from republicans. president obama says it's possible. chief white house correspondent ed henry explains the reasoning. >> while storm clouds are still forming around his attorney general eric holder, president obama was home in chicago raising money for house democrats, to try to help get nancy pelosi back in charge. >> outstanding leader. soon once again to be leader. we love nation. >> the president's mission is not just helping democrats take back the house in 2014 so they can pass his second term agenda. a democratic victory would knock speaker john boehner out of power, making sure that darrell issa would no longer have gavels to investigate the string of controversies dominating congress' attention right now. >> a democrat house would cease to ask appropriate quest

last people to attempt it seriously was nixon in the pentagon paper's case and even they stopped andthey knew they wouldn't have a chance. either it was something that they were not going to do, but they did it as a ruse in order to put rosen in a separate category. if you are a co-conspirator and criminal suspect and add on to them and say he is a flight rick, it allows you to do all kinds of stuff to the e-mails and communication and personal and professional that you can't if he is a journalist. and their defense is we went around the law and we violated the law by pretending he was a criminal co-conspirator and that is damming as. >> soon as today, we get word from the associated press that the president and ceo gary pruitt. there was a town hall conference call with the a p reporters in which he said the sweeping subpeona. and apparently during that call, thousands and thousands of calls to a variety of a p offices were obtained by the government. juan, is it your sense that the white house is reaching a point where eric holder may need to step down? >> not politically. it is no

. >> the general counsel at the time decided to publish the pentagon papers called for holder to resign as saying he has a precedent that reporters can now be treated as criminals. lori: for more a the multiple white house scandals and the tumbling job approval numbers please welcome a former deputy assistant and fox news contributor for the hill. many organizations including fox news will not attend because it is off the record meeting why isn't he let journalists report to allow transparency that they try to convince us of? >> that is a very good question. perhaps it should be televised if he still wants to make it they would have been open conversation but it is the question obviously asking him how did you let this happen and how would you ever approved of these tactics? why did you make the decision? he will spend his way out is more public relations and that it makes perfect sense all the people who are now in all the different news outlets investigating this scandal coming out of the doj from their own investigation, it is hard to go to these meetings and listened to this been to

historically first time it was used in 1971 in the famous pentagon papers case. when daniel, perspective consultant leaked vietnam war. they were charged and that prosecution fell apart because of the prosecutorial misconduct. he avoided prison. then there was a man named robert morrison who sold some classified satellite pictures to defense publications in the 1980s. purely for money basically and wasn't really a leak of information to the press. it was more of commercial thing. he was prosecuted and did serve time. then there was a gentleman named larry franklin in the bush administration, george w. bush administration, his crime, which he pleaded guilty to was slightly different. he actually shared classified information with two lobbyists for the pro-israel lobby apec. they were sharing it with journalist so it was a similar thing. he also pleaded guilty and served some time. by most people's count, those are the only three cases history before obama came into office in 2009. since president obama has been in office and in his first term, there were six prose

no matter what the motivation of the administration since the publication of the pentagon papers thereas been a very serious question about the department of justice going after the source of the leak within the government or the journalist who publishes the leak. over time very stiff guidelines have been pput in place that require a very high test before the justice department goes after the reporter and requires personal approval of the attorney general or his deputy. in this instance i think the admintration went way too far and what their motivations were i don't know. it was just plain bad judgment and a chilling effect on a free press. when the president says he believes in a free press he ought to back it up by taking action to either discipline or criticize his own attorney general for having done this. >> i will tell you what i think is so weird. number one, from the 1970s the department of justice has guidelines where if they want to subpoena recordskuzrqv go to th news organization and look for cooperation and try to narrowly tailor the request to meet their needs. they got

he made it sound like this was bigger than the pentagon papers. he says people's lives were at risk. you often hear that when the government is trying to justify abuses in under surveillance. but there is no evidence to support that. i think he sort of looks foolish in making those arguments. ashleigh, a little while ago. i gave an international press club on water gate. i said, it's astonishingly how many acts were involved in the articles of impeachment against nixon. ironically, one of the things i noted is obama has not had the same allegations involving the irs. we can now check off that box. this doesn't mean he is nixon. but i have to say he is using powers here. he is accused of abuse of powner terms of hissed a machinestration that raises legitimate questiol -- of administration that needs to be raised. >> we are seeing this in benghazi and applied to these two issues as well. i think we have a lot to sort out. thank you for your wise counsel. we appreciate your time today. our viewers, you can tune in tonight to piers morgan because he's

the pentagon papers or whatever. th is romance about the press. we are over it.he press is like a sovereign nation, and they are no friend of the united states. >> stupid first amendment. what were the founding fathers thinking? >> they obviously didn't have tmz. >> is that some kind of disorder? >> in the right hands it is. >> you said you are conflicted about this story that the yemeni league was really bad which i get. what is the rational for the doj not following the usual guidelines and notifying the associated press in advance it would subpoena the records? >> they are saying it could have threatened the investigation. >> how? >> any sane person would ask that question. it makes no sense. >> when you do an investigation like this and say they pull 20 phone records, phone lines. >> they are pulling the call logs off of those. you have two months of call logs and you have all of those numbers. that's a lot of numbers considering they are reporters. now you have to investigate the numbers. now are you not just investigating the reporters, but you are investig

you have got to distinguish between a julian assange and wikileaks case or daniel ellsberg and pentagon papers case. these people are leakers. rosen is a real journalist. >> bill: what are you saying now? are you saying that holder made a foolish mistake and your defense of holder is he can't see everything. that's absurd. absurd. >> let me finish my point, bill. my point to you is what happened in the rosen case is rosen is using sort of dead end, email. is he using aliases, you know, phony names to try to get this information. >> bill: so what? get to the point. >> that let the fbi and some of these prosetors then to decide we want to know more about james rosen. >> all right. fine. at that point they should have said james rosen is a real journalist and we shouldn't go after him. if that's the case he doesn't have to be named a coconspirator. you go to the judge ridiculously after two judges wouldn't by the bay a third judge signed off on it. >> a third judge did. holder says he alerted fox news and news corps that this was happening. we don't have any record of that no record at all, all r

daniel talked about the back story on the pentagon papers and the press and the pressure that they werems to pale in comparison to the broad scale assault on the first amendment that we're seeing under this administration. it seems like history repeats itself, and here we are again with the press in jeopardy. >> cenk: so as he says he's going to press forward under media shield law david given what has happened in the past do you believe him. >> i think he'll press forward on it, i'm not sure it's a good idea and among my peers there is disagreement about it. there are report whose want a shield law. i'm skeptical as i teach my students at law school, anything that is a sword can be a shield and the government can take this law to shield reporters and then use it against them. but clearly we need to have a check on the depth and length of executive hunts for leakers. that's being intimidated here. you're not going to intimidate men and women who do investigative stories. that's not their nature. they write about mobsters and killers. but the people who blow the whistlers, they want to h

look nixon during the pentagon papers considered doing this very thing.aid dammit the guy at "the new york times." i want to get him and say he was an aider abettor and coconspirator. they said, dude, you're crazy. nixon said i can't do that but obama did it. >> the supreme court has held that the government can't have a prior restraint against publication. you can't stop the publication. here they're by passing that because they have gone around it and to get at the sources beforehand and to then to suggest that the journalists might be subject to criminal prosecution. that's it. no one is going to public it if you're faced with prison. >> cenk: jean mayor--jane myers an incredible writer: >> jane myer, we can listen to because she was properly outraged. >> cenk: yes, by mr. obama. brett, a great point earlier this morning there is a double irony here. thank god they went after fox news because now conservatives will attack obama. because before mitch mcconnell, oh, the ap, you want to spy on them, at it, hoss. but now that it was the fox news reporter,

another political enemy, former military analyst who leaked the pentagon papers to congress, needlesssay, nixon was not a fan. his white house went after him, and not just through legal channels, which is how the department of defense has gone after bradley manning with appalling ruthlessness. no, no, no, through criminal side canals. >> so, tomorrow we'll review all this stuff. we tried a few -- we had one little operation that aborted out in los angeles, which, i think, is better that you don't know about. >> agreed. >> but we've got some dirty tricks under way that may pay off. >> all right. that operation that he wasn't telling nixon about involved the wiretapping and burglary at a shrink's office to root through his records and bug him. by the way, none of this is the actual watergate break-in. this was just all, or some of the stuff, we found out because of the investigation of the malfeasance that wound out forcing nixon out of office. the fact he was a criminal syndicate does nothing to excuse wrongdoing by the obama administration, but ever since the 1970s, republicans and co