build perot systems and so forth. these are guys who know how to build empires and business who think some of them that they can build a temporary empire which is what a presidential campaign is. bloomberg say he's not doing it. >> chris, i want to play for you angus king. he was on another show this morning, one that i'm familiar with called the daily rundown. he brought up a candidate. listen to who angus king floats as a potential candidate for an independent candidacy or third party ticket. listen. >> i think it would be somebody, a guy named chuck hagel a republican senator from nebraska. >> who endorsed obama, essentially. >> she a terrific guy. i could say a guy like that and maybe a slightly disaffected democrat coming together and forming a team that could shang american politics. >> this goes to the idea that the business community isn't well thought of these days you're not going to get a businessman. there's no other figure like that. it would have to be a did affected paul. >> who is that handment guy int

ç he was running after ross perot and george bush.his is a different dynamic and the gap between clinton and dole is really stunning at this point, but moving from 30 to 50 is possible. >> yeah, it's wicked weird for me to watch that too. it was a different world back then, and many of the familiar figures today were in different places then. pat buchanan was then the ron paul of the republican party, running hopeless campaigns for president that won him a lot more votes than ron paul could ever dream of. >> tim, did we factor buchanan into this at all? if republicans abandon dole, do they revive the buchanan candidacy? perhaps tim is taking a coffee break. that's okay. do you think buchanan can go to the convention now and say i'm still here? >> buchanan is doing that. he's in the paper today says ross perot can take my voters. what he means by that is republican party better pay attention to me or my voters are going to go to ross perot. that's a strong argument at this point, and the republican party has to desperately figure out w

in 1992 that was ross perot. now, the only one that fits that is the mayor of new york, michael bloomberg. >> because he's short? >> no. he's got billions and he's got the organizational gift. these are guys who know how to build empires and business and think, some of them, they can build a temporary empire, which is what a presidential campaign is. bloomberg says he's not doing it. >> an gus king, a great name in u.s. politics was on another show this morning, ""the daily rundown"." he brought up a candidate. listen to who he floats as a potential candidate for a third party ticket. listen. >> i think it would be somebody, a guy names chuck hagel, a republican senator from nebraska -- >> who endorsed obama, essentially. >> he's a terrific guy. i could see a guy like that and a democrat coming together to form a team that could change american politics. >> chris, this goes to the idea that because the business community isn't well thought of these days, you are not going to get a businessman. warren buffett is p

he built bloomberg just the way perot built perot systems and so forth.hese are guy whose know how to build empires in business, who think, some of them, that they can build a temporary empire, which is what a presidential campaign is. bloomberg says he's not going to do it. >> angus king, one of the great names of american politics, on another show this morning, one that i'm very familiar with called "daily rundown." i asked him. he brought up a candidate. a potential candidate for an independent candidacy or third-party ticket. listen. >> i think it would be somebody, a guy named chuck hagel, for example, a republican senator from nebraska. >> endorsed obama, essentially. >> yeah, yeah, and she a trick guy. i could see a guy like that and maybe a slightly disaffected democrat coming together and forming a team that could change american politics. >> this goes to this idea that, because the business community isn't very well thought of, frankly, these days, you're not going to get a businessman, a la perot or lee iacocca, warren buffett, probably too old

ross perot was popular in texas because frankly he was a great character. even though he was quite pint sized and had a funny voice, he carried himself as a tall, tough texan. another big part of his popularity was his business savvy that made him a billionaire for founding and selling computer services that employed thousands of people, but ross perot was popular in part because he had a habit of making grand gestures of topics close to people's heart. for example, in 1989, a man tried to murder a tree, the last of austin, texas' oak tree with a massive dose of herbicide, ross perot responded by handing over a blank check to pay for the cost of nursing the tree back to health. the costs ran into six figures. that tree these days i have to say is not in great shape, but it is still alive and produced its first acorns eight years after it almost got tree murdered and survived thanks in part of ross perot and his act of generosity. now america is dealing with another sentimental case ofr f murder. auburn university in alabama where somebody poisoned two oak t

or a guy like perot who had this kind of national appeal.rd -- one of problems in talking about a moderate candidate is that moderates tend not to turn people on all that much in terms of excitement, the activists aren't going to go out and make those thousand phone calls. so it's a hard road but i'll tell you, i think every round we seem to be getting closer to it where people are ready to say, i want to try something else. i thought for a while it might be michael bloomberg. i think he maybe has given up that flirtation, although, i'm not sure of that, but he might -- it is hard to see where it would come from. i think it would be somebody, a guy name chuck hagle, for example, a republican senator from nebraska i believe. >> who endorsed obama essentially? >> yeah, he is a terrific guy. i can see a guy like that and maybe a slightly disaffected democrat coming together and forming a team that could change american politics. >> we'll see if they build it and these folks come. governor angus king from maine. thanks for putting up with the te

independents we think of ross perot and a person who's turned off politics to some extent. >> i think there's a cross. the specific things they can do across the specific groups but to me the core difference between 2008 and 2012 is going to be politics of hope we saw in 2008 versus politics of fear in 2012. they won't call it that but so much of this campaign in terms of driving turnout, amongst all of these group lbs about making the republican alternative totally aun acceptable and they will have a billion dollars. you will see a negative, onslaught of negative advertising. we have never seen -- chris: you just split the story. if the story is hope for obama, how does he build up that -- >> it's fear this time. 2012 it's fear of the alternative. and it's $500 million of negative ads run against mitt romney or jon huntsman or michele bachmann. chris: and trashing his opponent? >> the public may not want to see it but they will get it. in the past even though they say they don't want to see it, it worked in the past. >> the very same democratic campaign running against republican ext

we saw that with the perot election.s happened and perot split the vote and we go someone we didn't want. we need to be very careful how we put our -- >> sean: do you agree with reagan's principle revitalized second party, not a third party? >> i do. when we look at the principles of the republican party, they are right. the problem is, it is who runs. i talk about this in my book i talk about how they run right and vote left. they say all the right things to us. and you may know think that started a new pact, it is our voice pact. and the reason that we're working with pact this time is we think people need to be informed voters. they need to look more at the record not just in what people are saying. we definitely think this is important, because harry reid is now exporting what he did in nevada to the whole nation. >> sean: i still can't believe he won. as you look back on the campaign i'm not asking to you monday morning quarterback. were there things you would do differently? i know you turned down an opportunity to

ross perot at one point had 40% of the polls, and he was nuts. he thought little black helicopters were chasing him. imagine that michael bloomberg runs. he does not need a dime from anyone. he attaches a on to his plan a carbon tax to raise money for government research. he will get more than ross perot's 18.9% of the vote, and i think it would really shake up the system. this system needs shaking up. we are trapped in a corrupt duopoly and basically -- one thing about the internet and the hyper connected world. it has gladdened every hierarchy -- flattened every hierarchy in the world from the new york times to the banking industry. it has gladdened every hierarchy -- black and every hierarchy -- flattened every hierarchy in the world except the two-party system, and that will not remain. that is a prediction that i will make. i think this is going to be radical election unless barack obama becomes the third party candidate. >> that texas back to lincoln -- that takes us back to lincoln. you had a movement that eventually changes things. let me

my father was dying and valid doing the job for the old ross perot company. there were women that want to pray for my father and i was very touched by this. atheists will say that they don't need your prayers and would have been dismissive about it. these were kind women and the couple met and that felt attached to me and concerned for me and didn't even know how my father. this was very moving and i thing -- who knows what the power of prayer is. the of them are convincing to my skeptical mind, but they say it can move mountains. they can heal people. perhaps this may be narrow scientific, the people can throw away crutches and of wheelchair's, high-end -- and there is that. tavis: i think there is a courage to save you don't know about any particular thing. how unpopular it is, there is a certain amount of courage. what would have to happen for you to leave? >> has is going to sound a cerebral and intellectual, but i would have to have something empirical. he makes a division between the outer empirical at the anna and her goal. it would be great if somethi

not since perot 1992 has there been a vacuum that somebody from the outside could fill and yet there'sno obvious outsider. >> i think presidential elections it's hard enough to find a viable, credible third party independent candidate. but you know -- it virtually never happens. i don't think it's a legitimate possibility. >> when does the angry turn is my question? >> i think they're going to start throwing out incumbents in both parties. you could see if they're angry and they throw out republicans in two elections, democrats in the next election and if things seem just as dysfunctional or more so, i think they start throwing a bunch of bodies out of windows and some are red and some are blue. but it's people who weren't seen as responsive. i think these guys are on very, very thin ice here because i think people look at washington and they see this dysfunction and they throw the in party out. right now in the house of representatives the in party is republicans. >> at what point do voters say where's all this focus on jobs that at first republicans were promising then democrats inst

not since perot '92 has there been a vacuum, it seems, that someone from the outside can fill, and yet's no obvious outsider. >> i think in presidential elections it's hard enough to find a viable, credible third party ind dependent candidate. in congressional elections, it's pretty binary. it virtually never happens. i don't think it's a legitimate possibility. >> but then where does the angry turn? i guess that's my question. >> i think they're going to start throwing out incumbents in both parties. i think that you could see, if they're angry and they throw out republicans in two elections, democrats in the next election, and things seem just as dysfunctional or more so, i think they just start throwing a bunch of bodies out of windows, and some of them wear red jerseys and some wear blue. it's people that weren't seen as responsive. i think that's a more likely scenario than anything else. i think these guys are on very, very thin ice here. i think people look at washington. they see it as dysfunctional. and they throw the in party out. right now the house of representatives the in

american eagle and the last high profile american politician to tell the truth about this was ross perot and his blunt honesty on the topic got him twenty percent of the vote in one nine hundred ninety two. the first thing out of there is get all these folks who've got these one trade agreements to go shit over the years and say fellows will put the same deal we gave you. and they are good. we have got to stop sending jobs overseas there will be a job sucking sound going south he was right and just like we outsource u.s. jobs in manufacturing plants overseas now we've even outsourced the american way itself once we dropped it and nations like china india brazil south korea picked it up and guess what your kind of knees are booming in a few years china will surpass the united states as the top economists in the world in a few decades india will surpass us to the bric nations it's brazil russia india and china all nations that now employ the american way currently account for one fifth of the world's economy and represent forty five percent of all the economic growth on the planet we're be

remember this warning from presidential candidate ross perot in one thousand nine hundred two about what free trade would lead to. and you don't care about anything but make it not me there will be a challenge sucking sound going south so here that giant sucking sound or is it being drowned out by the noise the debt ceiling debate general electric announced yesterday that they're moving their x. ray of business headquarters out of the us and into china. three years ago the instant china institute a national single payer health care system covering every person in the country and thus their health care market is growing rapidly and g.e. wants to get in on that game i guess here in the united states where basic health care is becoming less and less available to people actually businesses and so profitable anymore the ironic thing is this g.e. c.e.o. jeffrey immelt is moonlighting as the head of president obama's job creation council he's the guy in charge of trying to figure out how to create more jobs in the united states while his day job is as a c.e.o. who's boxing up his company and sh

past just punishing people and expecting that to get anything done according to deputy chief mark perot's so this makes the question can we start seeing any of this leniency for the pleads made an illegal u. turn in the dark three hundred dollars fine driving drunk while a cop don't do that again also better check your parking meter that traffic cop is known to tase people all ticketing and he's got a few more strikes with his superiors before he's in trouble and once again demonstrating that eighteen government busybodies all over the world don't know anything about the internet government officials in germany are calling for outline facebook parties after a string of flash mobs at several parties including one of a six year old girl went up with sixteen other people crashing her little shindig the tax funded men in special hats are hard at work trying to find ways to treat the symptoms instead of the problem according to the schuman interior ministry for the state of lower saxony quote if public order and safety are put at risk then facebook parties must be banned in advance. well guys

ross perot. and they were also taking a fair amount of heat for the -- for mr. bush's appointment to the supreme court of clarence thomas. so she had a certain amount of concern. but then came the clinton and things started out kind of on a strange footing. a magazine concocted what became known as the great cookie controversy. some of you i can see nodding your heads. you remembered this. the question was, who baked the better chocolate chip cookies? was it barbara bush or was it hillary clinton? and hillary clinton sort of dismissed this and said, i'm too busy to bake cookies, you know, let's forget about this. and mr. bush said she thought the whole thing was forgotten. and then a few months later, the same magazine ran a story saying that in a taste test, people liked hillary clinton's cookies better. and barbara bush, well, that's really interesting because that's not my recipe. well, i mention it because even though it seems like a silly thing, perhaps, it garnered all of a sudden some very serious comment from reporters and columnists. and this also gave

a psychological evaluation stated as perot's remarkably well in treatment. . in another report he was stated to be not a menace to society. once on parole is previous victims at was found outside of her office. four months later date snatched her jaycee dugard off the street where she was held captive for 18 years these other videos that are taking showing children playing in the play from behind him there and talk more about this at a public meeting later on in the month. >> i young man tried hard to escape the street and start college in the fall was gunned down. >> sean that wilson has been in the programs since eighth grade he was bright carrying amateur for his age. he spent five years in the program to make a positive process in the program. >> it was a dedicated young man and he was going to pursue his education >> he died when he would shot in they had on webster st. auction on carried the victim died at the scene and have not made any arrests. >> teenager killing of three months old baby at lot entered a plea of not guilty. his mother tried to save hi

ross perot ran as an independent, taking many fiscal conservatives. that was before people figured out ross patrol -- ross perot's trace table was not in full upright position. ronald reagan reminded another audience he addressed in the spring of 1993, before the alzheimer's had taken hold. he give one final reunion four former aides and staffers and said, "here we go again. we elected a president who violated basic principles and had a liberal masquerading as a moderate, bill clinton." people who live by the rules should live better than those who do not live by the rules. he campaigned as a moderate but will govern as a liberal. what will happen? he will fail. sure enough, within two years, bill clinton had brought us the botched attempt to have hillary takeover the natural -- national health-care system, the largest tax increase in american history, a btu tax similar to cap and trade, and social experimentation. all kinds of problems. the 1994 republican revolution changed all that. bill clinton, of course, was not jimmy carter. he knew he was in t

bill clinton he had ross perot. so when bill clinton of at 46%.e won the presidency with 43% and won re-election running against bob dole. now the iraq war of getting going there that would be where george w. bush's numbers came down but he went on to win re-election by the time he got to re-election it was a closer dynamic. >> long way to go. thanks, john very much. she's the force behind the embattled media giant rupert murdoch. a closer look at the young wife leepg to her husband's defense. >>> plus from the streets to the stage you'll meet the korea's got talent star who is wowing the world. >>> you might remember susan boyle the woman whose voice captured the world's attention during her performance on the television show britain's got talent. now korea's got talent has discovered a new voice with an amazing story behind it. here is cnn paula hancock in seoul. >> reporter: trying to calm those last minute nerves, he seems just like thousands of other hopefuls on korea's got talent. but he's not. >> reporter: for the next ten years he lived on

and somebody sued ross perot when he didn't run for president, but it doesn't mean that the case has standard or merit. but when you look to the law enforcement costs, that is something specific to each state. but they have to take a percentage in termings of the cases or the counts for which she was convicted. because she was not convicted of murder. she was not convicted of the whole kit and caboodle shall we say, but 5% if you could say that of what she was charged with when you look at the premeditated murder charge that could have resulted in the death penalty. >> anne bremner, great to see you today. thanks. >> thanks. >>> a 100-year-old british tabloid "news of the world" is shutting down. all of this out of a growing scandal of hacking potential victims and why james murdoch said it had to be done. sglo >> as a descendent of iowa, i'm a resident of waterloo. >>> and there is a congressman under fire for what he calls bachmann's sex appeal. >>> and jay barbary joins us live ahead of nasa's last shuttle launch. [ male announcer ] this is larry... whose long day starts with arth

tonight dan kerman looks at some documents that showcased the perot systems mistakes. >> we have been sleeping in there. >> why is this door locked? >> an addition to the video of a parole agent during the garrido home and missing jaycee dugard being captive --being held captive in the backyard and another video of them videotaping children and a playground and the d.a. has released millions of information showing how they failed to monitoring the real. after his conviction of kidnapping in 1977 garrido writes this letter from prison saying that in all respects, my life has changed. i am so ashamed of my past. this 1978 psychological evaluation concludes that garrido has progressed remarkably well and treatment. prognosis for a successful transition into the community is considered very good. this 1988 document from the state of nevada department of prisons says that garrido is not a menace to the health, safety and morals of society. that same year, the u.s. parole commission granted him parole saying that they would not jeopardize the public welfare. once on parole, one of his previ

he will get more than ross perot's 18.9% of the vote, and i think it would really shake up the system. this system needs shaking up. we are trapped in a corrupt duopoly and basically -- one thing about the internet and the hyper connected world. it has gladdened every hierarchy in the world from the new york times to the banking industry. it has gladdened every hierarchy in the world except the two- party system, and that will not remain. that is a prediction that i will make. i think this is going to be radical election unless barack obama becomes the third party candidate. >> that texas back to lincoln -- that takes us back to lincoln. you had a movement that eventually changes things. let me open it up. >> i think we only have one microphone. right here, and then who is over here looking for mike? my question is, if it is dead man walking in the middle east, there is a country called saudi arabia which you have written a lot about. i realize -- what this country does not realize is what happens if it falls. >> the king is somewhere -- the crown prince is extremely ill. the acting c

ross perot ran as an independent, taking many fiscal conservatives.not in full upright position. ronald reagan reminded another audience he addressed in the spring of 1993, before the alzheimer's had taken hold. he give one final reunion four former aides and staffers and said, "here we go again. we elected a president who violated basic principles and had a liberal masquerading as a moderate, bill clinton." people who live by the rules should live better than those who do not live by the rules. he campaigned as a moderate but will govern as a liberal. what will happen? he will fail. sure enough, within two years, bill clinton had brought us the botched attempt to have hillary takeover the natural -- national health-care system, the largest tax increase in american history, a btu tax similar to cap and trade, and social experimentation. all kinds of problems. the 1994 republican revolution changed all that. bill clinton, of course, was not jimmy carter. he knew he was in trouble. he hired an unscrupulous political consultant. of course i repeat myself

get out of town lull before perot shut down. >> i wanted to get art viewers take on a car mechanic this other remarks you see at work as a condition of over san francisco we are going to warm up we might get up to 60 degrees today will cool back down into the upper 50s overnight. we do have some changes to talk about as we work into next week it will begin to feel like summer once again we will have more details coming ups. and this is look out fog tracker 4 as we head into the overnight hours you see the fog work its way back over the coast. and i'll look at our seven day forecast. >> we have cleared up the only hotspot we had this morning it slowed the ride down and it is now clear. the upper deck on the bridge is the best we have seen that. >> life to oakland where cameras are being placed to fight crime. and also the signs to warn people >> the signs are up that you are being watched now this is all along international boulevard 30 cameras were purchased by the city of oakland. this is a mexican restaurant back in april the altar was killed. they are being given to the merges all al

i think that, what was his name, ross perot? he made a difference in 2000 or 92. he made a difference. i think that african-american people have the right to raise questions, issues, platforms but i also think that at the end of the day, if you tell me that my choice is any democrats or sarah palin -- [laughter] i am going to go with any democrats. i mean, that would be me. that might not be you. that would be me. i'm not sure that i can see russia from alaska. [laughter] and yet, though, there are many are regressive's. there are many people of color who are in this quandary. what is a quandary? >> of quandary is -- the quandary is how to get action for your. >> the same thing that you are urging. >> we cannot, we cannot assume again -- let me be really clear. those who are in presidential politics who understand the limitations that any president has. he was talking about more than just a president though. i think the whole party. >> so make it happen. make it happen. here in new york i think there is a working party's family which i think is really exciting and

do you think that perot is an obstacle in the way of reaching a deal? -- the think that perot is an obstacle in the way of reaching a deal? >> i have been in discussions for the last seven weeks. it is almost nine weeks total that we have been talking about this. the way i have approached and the same thing that i have done , it's right and see what can match up with the principles the and tos has laid out garner the necessary support so that we can avoid going past august 2 without increasing the debt limit. if there is a dose of pragmatism in all that we do, how will we ritchie of -- how will we achieve a result so we can deliver for the american people? as i have said before, the proposals that are on the table, given their current state, and what i know about where our 218.rs are, we are not at we want to make sure that we avoid default. we want to make sure that we avoid past -- going past august 2 without raising the debt ceiling. >> if you continue to say that raising taxes is bad for the economy and the economy will suffer, but ben bernanke pain

some of the survivors of returned to debate perot criticizing the captain and his crew.urvivor and one of the wives what she had to save >> i knew that how bad the crew was that they did not care. >> the captain should have known about the storms. the fact that the captain did not avoid driving directly into a storm. he is the one that is to blame. and also the crew focusing on the save themselves. as opposed to the passengers. it is very, very disturbing. >> greg hansen, the former chp officers spent 15 hours in the water. and for a couple of hours he was had a feeling that something was wrong. >> water was coming into the top of the boat and partial submission submersion of the-boat when i got up. i saw the coolers and i jumped over to the side of the boat with a cooler. and i saw the vote stand up on and. the boat-standing up and and within 5 seconds. the bow was bobbing up, just like the movie " titanic ". >> at 98 nothing was happening. 9:00 p.m., 10:00 p.m., and--we knew that nobody put out a signal so we started swimming and a swimming. the tide was too strong. we

she was trying to illustrate, kind of like ross perot used to do, how spending is out of control herehe voted against the cut, cap and balance amendment saying it didn't go far enough. she voted against it yesterday, brooke. >> how is she doing, paul? when you look at the recent polling? >> you know, she is doing very well. she's definitely been on the rise. in fact, nbc wall street journal, a national poll came out yesterday, second straight national gop horse race poll where she's in second place. you can see right there at 16%. look at that, the governor of texas, rick perry, he's not in the race, but he's climbing in the polls. stay tuned. this race is getting more exciting by the day. >> thank you so much. >> find out why american airlines are buying hundreds of new planes. idling ] [ male announcer ] talking a big game about your engine is one thing. having the proven history that can back it up is a whole nother story. unsurpassed torque... best in class towing... legendary cummins engines. which engine do you want powering your truck? guts. glory. ram. which engine do you want

. >> if there's a third party that emerges along the lines of ross perot, you remember what happenedat in effect guarantee barack obama's re-election? >> no, i don't think anything at this point guarantees barack obama's election. in this current process, the american people definitely want this over. but the devil is in the is in the details, and if they find out it's been done the wrong way then everyone who participated in that process is going to pay a price at polls. in my view i think a third party is extraordinarily difficult to organize in this country. we've been a two-party system for a very long time. this is a substantial tea party movement in this country, but i don't see that actually forming into a third party. >> it may not be, james, as difficult as it used to be in this age of social network and the internet. >> no, it could happen. by the way, the public does want tax increases, overwhelmingly they want a increase of tax increases and spending cuts, overwhelmingly, not close. like 65%. >> if people are clamoring to have a higher tax bill, i haven't seen it. >> i wa

caller: ross perot said that there was not a dime's worth of difference between republicans and democratsi have to agree with that statement. i think that the senators and congressmen, they are not fighting for no tax increase on the rich, they are all rich themselves. host: thank you for calling. one more message from twitter this morning. host: here is senator mitch mcconnell, republican, on "fox news sunday" of all of this. >> look, over 60% of our budget, we do not even vote on. you cannot do anything, serious, about the deficit without impacting the biggest percentage of the budget. so, i commend the president for putting medicare and social security on the table. he is correct in doing that. you cannot have a serious debt correction program without dealing with them in the long term of years. host: published in "the washington times" this morning -- host: cape coral, florida, philip, good morning. caller: social security should not even be on the table. social security is supposed to come from our government and should have no connection with our spending or deficit anything. this i

other perot kleist muslims have been arrested in the u.s. and canada before they reached somalia which is now much easier to go to for jihadists and afghanistan, iran, excuse me, afghanistan, iraq, pakistan or yemen but as many as two dozen muslim americans and al-shabaab with many cases trained by al qaeda leaders remain unaccounted for. the committee has found that all chabad related federal prosecutions for funding, recruiting and attempting to join al-shabaab are the largest number and most significant upward trend in the terror cases filed for the justice department over the past two years. least 38 cases have been unsealed since 2009. minnesota, ohio, california, new jersey, new york, illinois, alabama, virginia and texas three al-shabaab is recruiting inside american mosques and disalle communities like minneapolis and san diego. according to the justice department. this month and also of recruiter pleaded guilty to a recording a large group of muslims from minneapolis at mosques and without any known protest moscow's leaders. a top a

as the question of thinking about perot today. i do not find myself in general in sympathy with the president's select's view, certainly not the early version, but even mthe more current versions, but i would like to give him the same benefit of the doubt. it is worth remembering, when chavez first elected, he did not run on the platform that he has implemented. he was very much in opposition to the way to venezuela had been governed. he was challenging both political parties and long entrenched elites, but he did not articulate at the time he would be undertaking that kinds the policies that have undermined the media and journalists in civil society. the real serious difficulty for a venezuelan opposition and for anybody else is the this chaez process has occurred very gradually. it was not a military coup. it was autocracy drop by drop, and it is much more difficult to respond to the gradual installation of autocratic practices, and we we have not done a very good job at supporting the democratic process. it is very hard to do w