. >> what are you smoking, rick perry? >> it is supposed to be taxation tuesday for rick perry. the moment when he reveals his plans for a flat tax for all americans. i'm afraid we must start with the candidate who is smoking up the charts. the got father himself, herman cain. in a brand-new "new york times" poll leads with a full quarter of voters, cruising past mitt romney's 21%. just weeks ago, the two were tied at 17%. the cain train is not only driving the polls, but pushing the gop in terms of policy and influencing the other candidates, jumping on the 9-9-9 bandwagon, the flat tax is the centerpiece of rick perry's plan as announced in the battle ground state of south carolina. today the cain campaign has everyone a twitter. not about taxes, but tobacco as featured in a new web ad. take a look. >> we have run a campaign like no one has seen and america has never seen a candidate like herman cain. together we can do this and take this country back. . >> the somewhat disheveleds smoker in question is mark block, cain's campaign manager and a man with a smoking gun of his ow

i know what governor perry said.pastor jeffress, are you going to accept his endorsement of the governor? does the governor want the endorsement of folks who call mormonism a cult? >> i'm not sure we can do anything about that. we get support from all kinds of folks. i think what you need to pay attention to is what the governor has to say. he made his position clear. this in our view is a distraction from the issues at hand. the economy, job creation, and is not a constructive debate to be having right now. >> is it fair to say we won't see pastor jeffress as a surrogate for the perry campaign? that we won't see him introducing governor perry at future events? >> well, that introduction was determined by voters. we didn't know he was going to make those remarks which happened, by the way, after it. unrelated. again, we want to get back to job creation, economy, and the governor's conservative record and not be distracted by those issues. which really aren't good for anybody. >> i want to go to the economy here. this

the idea of rick perry ul p better than rick perry himself. >> he saw his numbers drop from double to single digits. the polls have him at 6%. he takes aims at former massachusetts governor, mitt romney. >> i consider him to be a fat cat but it doesn't matter to me what anybody says about this. i know what will work. >> what he thinks will work is his flat tax plan. it includes giving taxpayers a choice. stick with the current rate or take a flat rate of 20%, reducing the corporate rate to 20%. allowing younger workers to opt out of social security and capping spending to 18%. >> for those at the top, it is hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars for them. >> but i don't care about that. >> something else perry claims not to care about, the so-called birther issue he helped revive. >> that's all a distraction. i get it. i am really not worried about the president's birth certificate. it is fun to poke at him a little bit. >> a good candidate who is trying to do a relaunch around an issue like taxes does not allow this thing to step on every headline. >> cnbc's chief washington

perry with immigration.erence with christie is this, if you watch him in action, there's this authenticity. he has the effect on republicans. he makes them want to like him. they work backwards and rationalize a way to like him. >> i think that personality could come back to really be a detriment. joe, what do you think? >> i agree. that's style over substance. i mean, and see, that's why the democrat -- president obama is really sitting back. he doesn't have to say a word because they -- it's a circular firing squad. they'll start shooting at each other and by the time you look up, whoever's left, you can talk about moving to the center or the establishment, but it will be one hell of a republican convention because the tea party folks are not going to stand for it. >> one quick answer from both of you. joe, does rick perry get past this latest controversy of his hunting ranch? >> i think this -- you know, to answer, my feeling is, no. because i don't think he has the consciousness that it would take. you k

perry. and again not even close.riffin perry did have to give us his job at deutch bank because he's been raising money for his father's campaign and the securities and exchange commission has rules governing political activities. in other words to keep people who may want to get investments in a state pension program like the one in texas from trying to buy political sway through campaign contributions. those rules were tightened effective last year because of shenanigans too many to mention related to the 2008 mortgage mess and broader financial meltdown. griffin perry, the son in question, told abc news recently, he decided to put his career on hold to help his dad. he said it was his choice. so for mrs. perry to say "my son lost his job because of this administration" doesn't pass the truth test. or to borrow, you might say it's all hat and no cattle. >>> breaking news over the scandal involving the obama's administration's multimillion dollar payment loan to a company. [ male announcer ] what if we told you that

debate stumbles to frame perry. how do you think perry should do this for romney? >> well i guess perry is clearly trying to align his argument against romney using the flip-flop argument, using the illegal immigration as a specific issue in particular. you know, here's the problem. there's not anything new in any of the things that perry thus far has put forward. i mean, these are issues that romney has already had to confront and deal with so he's prepared to handle them again. i think the issue for perry is, it's very clear, you know, that he is good on the attack, but what does he stand for? what idea is he putting forward and the latest ridiculousness of reigniting the whole birther controversy really shows he doesn't have much of his own in terms of fresh ideas or policy proposals he can campaign on, only campaigning against mitt romney. >> right, and for those of you who might not be that familiar with the whole birther issue, coming back into the spotlight, we're going to throw up a couple of graphics so you

the latest gop poll shows perry is floundering. they have romney at 30%, cain at 26%, perry at 13%. romney who people say flip-flops and perry's just flopping. >> that's true. he very much is. he came in with so much energy and fanfare and shot to the top of the polls immediately. and then those debate performances that were so poor really affected his candidacy and of course romney was all too happy to point that out in the debate saying that no wonder perry was getting so testy in those debates, because he had so many poor debate performances. but i think in some ways this does play into the white house's hands. i got some e-mails -- >> what does it mean for the president? >> i got e-mails from democrats who were very happy with the way mitt romney especially came off in this debate. he came off as out of touch, like the harvard hall monitor who knew everything, calling on anderson cooper to rescue him as he was in this debate with rick perry. so they were very happy with the way he came off especially. and i think just in general all the republicans up there really bickering and

i heard perry speak without a

governor perry is in iowa.t a barbecue in iowa, if he says anything we'll turn it around as quickly as possible. you say it's a burden on governor perry to say more. how does governor romney deal with this in the age of theness net, everything else, this will be circulated especially into places liiowa and south carolin. a new poll in new hampshire, wmur has mitt romney way ahead in new hampshire. if he can local that decent in iowa, he needs to win south carolina, he's on his way, that is going to be the biggest question mark. >> john, i think in a context of tomorrow, he doesn't want to continue stirring this controversy up. he's going to be asked about it in some interviews and then he needs to address it. and i think he'll have answers that will be persuasive for most americans, probably not all. it may be that sometime later in the campaign just as john kennedy had to give a speech, as you remember in texas to christian ministers, really compelling speech about his religious faith, just as barack obama eve

ken herman, you've known rick perry and covered rick perry longer than any of us.you to listen to the exchange last night. if you talk to the romney people today they'll say rick perry landed blows but this expoesd hip as mean-spirited. anderson cooper trying to get the governor to answer the question about the 14th amendment. >> let me ask a question, governor perry, the 14th amendment allows anybody a child of illegal immigrants born here is automatically an american citizen. should that change? >> let me address herman's issue -- >> i'd rather you ask the question -- answer that question mr. i understand that. you get to ask the questions and i get to answer like i want to. and herman, herman talked about -- >> that's a response. that's not an answer but go ahead. >> what did you see in governor perry last night? anything new or is this a familiar governor? >> no, it's a familiar governor. he's combative and people have asked me, is rick perry mean? and i guess the question is, which rick perry? the rick perry i've known professionally and casually for 25 years?

they like it that perry, at least perry people hope they do, they like it that perry is not afraid of obama. that he's going to poke obama. that he's the guy that will go after obama. that really is a more fundamental message in this birther -- this birther kind of clown show, frankly. >> in terms of what you have seen from him in previous campaigns, politico is reporting that texas republicans are slow even to endorse perry this time or around. of course, he is way down at 6%. have you ever seen perry this far behind in a race with so little support from his party? is there any way to know how he will react? >> no. he finished 39% in the election six, eight years ago. i have never really seen him that far behind. the only time i've seen him an underdog in a statewide election was 1990 against jim hightower. very popular republican. with karl rove's help on rick perry's side, you had karl rove leaking to newspapers including our own information and testimony from a secret grand jury investigating the agriculture department raising questions about corruption. stories in the newspaper.

and for team perry, bobby jindal, the republican governor of louisiana who endorsed governor perry of state of texas last month. welcome to both of you. governor pawlenty, i have to ask you, any regrets about getting out of the republican race? >> no, i have no regrets. we took it as far as we could, and for me it meant we had to fold up the tent. but i'm really excited and honored to be supporting mitt romney. the number one issue in this race is going to be who can get this economy going and jobs going, and he is the best candidate to do that by far. >> you did say recently the decision you made after iowa was perhaps premature. did you look at the complexion of this race now, you think you could have stayed in and been a contender? >> that was in reference to some tactical decisions we had made during the campaign, not the decision to get out. certainly not the decision to support mitt. >> all right, let's talk about negatives on both sides. because these are negatives that have to be dealt with and overcome at this stage of the race. you heard from herman cain, who is now, accordi

while rick perry was running the program, perry repeatedly told this lie.fact, the program cost texans -- texas taxpayers $50 million in bad loans and then governor perry once he became governor had the pleasure in 2009 of signing his own government bailout of the failed loan program he ran when he was agriculture socialism commissioner. an auditor found that perry had guaranteed loans to applicants with a negative net worth. have you ever tried to get a loan with a negative net worth? these are applicants who couldn't have paid back those loans. the auditor found that perry had violated the lending guidelines. perry's successor, susan colmes, also a republican, found the program in such hopeless condition that she simply stopped making agriculture socialism loans. now, good socialists like me like good socialism. programs that work as designed that we simply couldn't live without like unemployment insurance, social security, medicare. but bad socialists like rick perry, like bad socialism, like agriculture socialism and his failed loan program. now that we

in that way, rick perry did succeed. now, the back and forth again, i don't know that f that was beneficial to either in them. but in drawing mitt romney out, that clearly worked. >> let me make a point to both of you. this is what mitt romney had to say, and he was basically saying, you know, i was running for office, therefore i made sure that we got rid of these illegals. take a look. >> i don't think we have that tape ready. but can i say, he said, we hired a lawn company to know our lawn. they had illegal immigrants working there. when that was pointed out to us we let them go. we went to them and said, perry said, a year later. and he said you have a problem with allowing someone to finish speaking. but he made the point, romney did, that it was because he was running for office that checked it out. bottom line is it was wrong. why was it happening? >> right. get to perry wants to do. a lot of elections are down to a values choice. you are trying to get at gut level of the voter. what perry has been trying to do an

let's switch to perry right now. came out swinging, as we all know and from watching the debate and so did romney. is there any reaction to that moment that romney, you know, when he put his hand on perry's shoulder and was element schooling perry in that situation? >> i haven't add chance to go back and check the tapes yet but a rm knee aid told me there is a moment from a another debate where perry put his arm on romney so they say he played the personal space card first. i think that's a seminole moment, certainly an image of last night's debate. leaving las vegas, a giant photo on the front page of the las vegas review journal. >> all right. garrett haake. appreciate your time today. i know you got to get on that flight, you are already on that flight, we will talk to you again soon. >> coming to you from seat 10 d. >> well done. then herman cain charging hard in the polls. it could hurt in the end. for more, we go to andrew raverty. good day to you. the debate began with herman cain getting it from all six other

perry has a following. fact that matthew said that he didn't do well in debates, again, he is going to grow as a candidate if he wins the nomination. romney is going to grow as a candidate. herman cain is going to grow as a candidate if he wins the nomination. >> is cain, does he have sticking power? >> i think the problem is, cain, attractive though he is and intelligent, his 9-9-9 program, i think he has a low ceiling. >> can i ask haley a question? >> please. >> haley, george will, in the last five election cycles the republican presidential candidate have received 79% of their electoral votes from the south. that -- weigh that against the fact that these elections have to be won or loss in the north, obama has to carrying three of four of these states, ohio, pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin. all of which elected republican governors in 2010. now, do you think that rick perry is a good candidate to win those states in the north? >> look, he's had a very good record as the governor of texas. been gove

because perry has to show that he can debate. he needs two good debates, but has got to the at least do this one well. >> hugely important, andrea, because all of the focus will be on him. the debate is focused singularly on the economy, which will be the main issue of the election. rick perry has to show his doubters, yes, i can stand on the stage with mitt romney and hold my own. yes, i can talk intelligently, not just about the texas economy, but what the texas economy means for the u.s. economy. all this money that he raised, all $17 million of it, won't matter all that much if he cannot execute the basics of campaigning. and that's the base. he has to look presidential, he has to look up to the job, he has to look electable. because that's ultimately what republican primary voters are looking for, and it's why mitt romney has reemerged as the front-runner in a lot of ways, because he so steady and you can imagine him on a debate stage with president obama. >> and, in fact, mitt romney going after rick perry in florida on the

>> i don't know how much it says about rick perry. i can't read rick perry.any particular insights about how he feels about black people or african-americans. i was thinking about the clip you played from governor christie where he said this was a word from a long ago past. if you actually read the story and look at the people in the story who know what the camp was called, what they say is, i don't understand, what's the big deal? all these quotes all through the story. it's just what it's called. i don't understand why it would offend anybody. it's quite clear, it's not, we'd like to be from a long ago past, if you read the story it's actually not. >> it's interesting he put that in. it's important that we have put that all behind us. there's this tremendous disquiet when something like this emerges precisely because it seems to invalidate that whole story. >> right, right. well, i think when your constituency is made up and is predominantly white as a conservative movement is right now, you have to answer some pretty ugly questions you wouldn't want to fac

perry folks. they hunker down and go block by block and do old fashioned blocking and tackling when it comes to campaigning. that's why folks shouldn't write him off. >> they should not write him off. but he has a serious challenge from michele bachmann in iowa. she's been there longer. has been to more towns, knows more people. she could win iowa. >> one more thing before you go, watching herman cain, whenever he's had a chance to take a shot at perry, he's taken it. he took personal offense to this story. it gave the story legs, made it harder for the perry people to write it off as the liberal media coming to get a southern politician. mccain benefitted from people like mike huckabee who didn't like romney. how much does that benefit romney that herman cain and santorum, michele bachmann all have a problem with perry, not romney now. >> perry entered the race and became the front-runner although he never was. he was first in the national polls. if romney becomes the front runner they will all p

and perry's problem is perry. ease clearly not a great debater. he doesn't have a lot of bandwidth. he opens his mouth, he's good for 24 -- two or three sentences. chris: he's good for his ads. they beat a debate performance? >> this is a primary forged on debates, these not great and he's dropping in the polls and the public is picking up on it. >> i think the ads will matter a lot. he's got $17 million in the bank and he's going to use them and he likes to get into these knife fights and he will continue doing that and what he wants to do is blunt the immigration issue which has been used against him. chris: how? he's attacking romney. that ad on the lawn care company and the attack was about immigration. what have people attacked perry on? immigration and supporting a version of the dream act in his sewn state so he put romney on by the way, the 2008 campaign is not off limits, i'm going to rerun it and remind people why they didn't like you. chris: can you imagine being in another country competing with us eco

rick perry is fading fast. i could get in here and maybe sweep this thing, take it, just run right through. on the other hand, look what happened to rick perry as unprepared as he was. christie looks at a situation, i have not had any chance, i don't know that much about foreign policy or domestic policy. what if i get up in the glare and what happens to me happened to rick perry? it's a delicate balance to figure out what side to come down on. >> christie knows he's never once been in a public debate about social security, medicare, national defense. all these big and complex issues. he probably also knows he needs one good index card worth of material to win a republican debate on any one of these subjects, right? to sound smart enough. does he know what obviously perry didn't know? perry obviously wasn't crossing his mind what the name of his hunting camp was. in other words, all those vulnerabilities that you pick up over the course of your lifetime. something you said in college to someone you shouldn't ha

perry knew when. if not, thank you. >> you spoke about leadership and compromise. over the course of his career had to bring people together to get things done. he brought folks together turning around businesses and creating jobs. you don't do that by dictating. you form consensus and give a clear vision about where you need to go. you governor understands and you need to discuss this. in a country like ours, you never compromise your principals. you do understand that you can't get everything you want. usually there is a good space between getting everything you want and compromising principals. that's a space i operated in and the same space governor romney will operate in when he is president romney. >> the united states senate is about to vote on legislation that enacts your proposals on china and trade. do you support the bill that would impose sanctions on china if they do not float their currency. >> i will have to look at the piece of legislation to see which i agree with and which i disagree