watching peter baker, daniella diaz and glenn kirschner, thank you very, very much. coming up -- fox news and dominion voting systems are in court today for a key hearing. jeremy peters is here on what happened and we'll break down another lawsuit, this one from a current fox employee. and later, kev mccarthy and his caucus are supposed to be focused on policy, and they're quote unquote, retreat. but those, rise all trump is again dominating the conversation. the 11th hour is just getting underway on a tuesday night. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. [ ominous music playing ] here we go! level up your speed. mario! yea! [ screaming ] introducing the xfinity 10g network. super fast internet today. with even faste

welcome to carvalho and white house correspondent peter baker. welcome to sunday.t's "meet the press." ♪ press" with chuck todd. >>> a good sunday morning. brace yourself, folks, it is going to be a whirlwind of a week. it starts with the russian >>> from nbc news in washington, the longest-running show in television history this is "meet the press" with chuck todd >>> a good sunday morning. brace yourself, folks, it is going to be a whirlwind of a week it starts with the russian president. he's hosting xi jinping in moscow china is considering whether to arm russia because russia is in desperate need of munitions for the war. tiktok ceo under pressure of biden administration will be testifying on the hill this week, and already former president donald trump is creating a circus-like atmosphere, hijacking the media narrative and calling for protests ahead in what is an expected indictment next week, and it would be the firs indictment from the former u.s. president in american history and we'll begin with the economy. three years ago this week we probably need pers

let's discuss this with peter baker, chief white house correspondent for the "new york times" and and julie sa washington price, a democratic strategist who served as deputy political director for vice president kamala harris. good to have both of you here. you've got great reporting. you write, quote, democrats have grown increasingly wary of hot button issues like crime and immigration. crime ranks second as their top concern behind economy in the latest reuters ipsos poll. immigration is fourth. given the importance of them, what's the biden calculation here? >> well, look what you've seen just in the last week, right? in the last week or so, president biden reversed his position on this d.c. crime bill that was seen as being soft on crime. he did not want to have to sign something or veto something, in other words, overturning him that would leave him on the position as being in any way soft on crime. it left a lot of democrats in the house upset because they had taken a vote in the other direction, and i think that shows you his desire to kind of get back on his traditional posi

peter baker, daniel diaz, and glen gardner, thank you very, very much. coming up, fox news and dominion voting systems, or in court today, for a key hearing. jeremy peters is here, and what happened, and we'll break down another lawsuit, this one from a current blast employee. and later, kevin mccarthy and his caucus are supposed to be focused on policy, other florida retreat, no surprise, donald trump again dominating the conversation. the 11th hour, just getting underway on tuesday night. rotein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv (vo) red lobster's finer points of fun dining: now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. at lobsterfest, whether you're a sea-foodie or a lobster newbie, there's something for everyone. try one of six dishes, like new lobster and shrimp tacos for $17.99. and leave completely lobsessed. welcome to fun dining. get help reaching your goals with j.p. morgan wealth plan, a new tool in the chase mobile®

house correspondent peter baker.n the word bailout. are words like that so important right now? >> yeah. it's the seven-letter word, really four-letter word in washington to toxic after the 2008 crash that president biden and his team want to make clear to the public this is not anything like the bailouts that came back then when hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayers money were used to prop up the failing bond and most of that money got returned to the federal government but it was so galvanizing so many americans that felt they werelosing thei jobs and homes and life saving and they didn't get a bailout so how come the rich people that transformed our politics and argue it gave birth to the tea party movement and the movement on the left that propel bernie sanders and donald trump win the presidency you can see why president biden doesn't want any powers in between what happened then and now. >> politics so important you mentioned former trump white house stchief staff said, quote. what is the perspective of

peter baker, chief white house correspondent for the new york times.o mariotti, former federa prosecutor and legal affairs correspondent for politico and david enrich, also at th new york times, where he is th business and investigation editor he is also the author of servants of the dam, giant law firms, all trump and the corruption of justice. all right, david, let's star with the silicon valley bank situation and how we got here. because your specialty i banks. and i want to talk about one bank in particular - goldman sachs. goldman sachs was the advise to silicon valley bank we know that they were in th hole with these treasuries tha they bought a year and a hal ago. goldman sachs was thei advisor. it has now been reported tha goldman bought a huge amount o securities from them when they were at their weakest moment goldman may have made hundreds of millions of dollars whe they sold out of that position they then advised the client we saw the ceo of silico valley bank get on a conferenc call, basically say to all o their depositors, we will be okay

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peter baker is right about the potency of the bailout word. if another bank looks like silicon valley bank, they can go to this fund, give them their treasuries and get back at face value a loan that's just injecting cash into that bank and the b word might come up. i think it is worth keeping an eye on that part of this response >> doug, when it comes to supervision and regulation, we know some lawmakers have come out and attacked 2018 law that rolled back the banking regulations. we saw an op-ed that said they would have if this hadn't been passed subject to stronger requirements, would have there to expose their vulnerabilities, do you agree that tougher restrictions should have been put in place >> i don't think that's the lesson of silicon valley bank. the lesson is under either set of rules that the banking examiner should have seen this this isn't about the framework for regulation it is about the execution. you can't have a bank exclusively holding an asset that is going to diminish in value really rapidly as interest rates go up. that

peter baker, obviously, this i how politically-charged. lawmakers are angry. -- talk about wrongdoing. what happens if this ends up just being a colossal screw up what if management at this company just plain screwed up? they weren't doing anythin nefarious, they weren't trying to steal - they just made a horribl decision with their deposits buying those treasuries, ended up in a whole, spooked the markets, they're depositor leave. and it's just stupid what is going to happen in terms of the political fallout >> never underestimate the possibility of stupid being th answer in almost any circumstance, especially, by the way, when you get into politics in washington so, stupid means stupid all th time here. and the fact is, we don't know right? if this is something tha creates a wider rippling effec that goes beyond a couple days and has, obviously, larger political legs if it becomes,, like a one-off and it becomes sort of like case study of a single banke or a couple banks, in this case, that went bad, people probably won't remember it tha

in the "new york times" peter baker worries about the long-term consequences for the presidency, notwhich because the indictment is being brought by a local prosecutor, opening the door to prosecutors around the country taking it upon themselves to go after a president. quote, it's not hard to imagine a conservative prosecutor trying to charge president biden with failing to adequately guard the border joining me now our chief legal correspondent, ari melber and douglas brinkley ari, peter baker was talking about a case in 2008 in vermont where voters approved resolutions accusing president bush and vice president cheney of crimes against the constitution they instructed their attorneys to draft indictments nothing came out of it what do you make of the legal theory this will make it easier for prosecutions for former presidents >> not much. it was a front page article in the "new york times. we cover everything. i appreciate you raising it. i don't know if you ever saw "bane and the dark knight. he said you fight like a younger person, it's admirable, but mistaken that's how i felt

peter baker and his reporting stresses there is no evidence ronald reagan knew about this effort, orected it. he wrote a piece this weekend where you said not only is the reporting credible, but in your own reporting, you encountered information that is even more incriminating. >> this is all in my book, my biography of jimmy carter. what happened is, the question of whether there was a so-called october surprise turned on a very, very specific thing in 1992 when it was being investigated by congressman lee hamilton on capitol hill. the question was whether william casey, this was reagan's campaign manager and later cia director, whether he left a meeting in london and went to madrid to meet with four iranian reesentatives of the ayatollah to discuss a deal. those four iranians say casey did leave london and go to madrid in summer 1980 not long before the election. for a long time, there was no proof of that. and then, just nine years ago now, a document surfaced in president bush senior's library where the u.s. ambassador in spain said in a cable, william casey is here this week, we

here, glenn kirschner, what peter baker, like you so much. when we come back, pulling back the curtain on fox news. we might just call it an fox we've got the. news means defamation suit exposing the inconsistencies between what you see on tv and what is going on behind the scenes. michael steele and basil smikle are here, and they have there's going to be compromise with republicans. there are a few that the white house hopes they can get compromise on. things like crime prevention, things like rail safety, defense, national security issues, things like that. and they will have to ultimately come to some sort of agreement to fund the government. but they are not going to get , and they don't expect to get the things that the president is talking about in terms of paid leave or what he wants to do to shore up medicare, for instance, because of the way that he pays, proposes to pay for these things. those are political things that he can essentially campaign on if he does decide to run, which he is expected to in 2024. at his event today, in p

peter baker is chief white house correspondent for "the new york times."ele, former chair of the rnc, both are msnbc political analysts. i guess the key question, ali, do republicans really want to move away from trump? there is arguably evidence to the contrary in their comments. what are you hearing and seeing in orlando? >> reporter: depends who you ask, chris. especially when my colleague scott long and i had that conversation with chairman mccall, one member who is really focused on serious and sober investigations as the chairman of his committee on foreign relations going into things like the afghanistan withdraw, he's focused there. you heard in the conversation, i asked him about the split screen about what republicans are trying to do with their majority in congress, versus what is happening out on the campaign trail and now potentially in the manhattan's d.a.'s office. the reality here on the ground and we watched this play out over the course of the last few days, nothing happens in a vacuum. it is all very much linked with everything that the

than a lon time observer of presidents an chief white house corresponden from the new york times, peter bakeroming bac on the show, peter politically, do you buy th argument from some of hi supporters as well as people like elon musk that an indictment would help trump in electoral terms, in terms of garnering sympathy from the go base that has slowly, ever s slowly, been moving away fro trump? >> i think you are exactly right to point out that we don't know we have never seen anythin like this before, right? there is no history to base ou judgment on. we ought to be careful about making predictions in, as yo put it, uncharted territory. we do not know they are very confident, obviously, that this will help them you want to be confident you've got to be careful o politics about things you ar confident about. often, it turns out you are no right. i've seen that so many times before i would say that clearly, ther is a sense of grievanc politics that has animated his appeal to his base for man years. he has used that successfull in the past two generate support from fellow republican who like hi

. >> with us now to talk about this, nbc news senior capitol hill garrett haake, tom winter and peter baker, chief white house correspondent for "the new york times" and msnbc political analyst. so, garrett, what are the biggest takeaways from last night's hearing? >> reporter: jose, last night's hearing was a fascinating overview of the broader strategic landscape between the united states and china. and the point that chairman gallagher tried to make both in the hearing and in interviews before and after was that this isn't some theoretical discussion about some future threat. this is a hear and now problem, whether you're concerned about surveillance, hard military power, industrial capacity, the future of taiwan, you name it, there is a nexus of competition between china and the united states on nearly every issue, even including what is on our phone. there was a small but very interesting portion of the hearing that focused on the question of tiktok. and the various ways that the chinese can make use of the fact they own the company that runs tiktok. take a listen to this sample of a q

reporter peter baker quotes create fox, suzanne fox, about the arizona call. here's a quote.led arizona those three or four days following election day, our ratings would have been bigger, ms. scott said. the mystery would have been still hanging out there. our cnn senior media reporter is here with us. what stands out to you from this very detailed account in "the new york times"? it really takes us behind the scenes as to what they were talking about, about that arizona biden call. >> yeah, jim. i guess what stands out to me is this is not how actual news networks operate, right? the thing that's striking is there is certainly a discussion to be had, i think, after fox news became the first outlet to call arizona for biden. that was before anyone else had called it. so there was certainly a discussion to be had about the call itself. but the portrait painted by peter baker in "the new york times" suggests that they weren't necessarily worried about calling the states for accuracy as much as it offended the viewers' feelings. maybe they shouldn't have called it so that they

all this amid climate activists decision joining us now from -- california kelly o'donnell and peter baker. so take us through the pictures. they've been devastating from that region. another storm system is taking aim there and fears that flood waters are contaminating drinking wells >> yeah, andrea, here, they have been told not to drink or only to drink bottled water because the water is contaminated due to the breach the entire town is under water 1700 residents were told to evacuate and since then, water is still going through this town even now, officials haven't been able to assess the level of the damage to the homes because they can't get there. as this point, residents don't know when they'll be able to return home. right now, crews are working to fix that breach, but they say it could be days before that happens and now another atmospheric river is expected tonight, which they say they're worried could lead to more reverse crusting, which means more damage how homes, more flooding, more highways and road closures and possibly more contaminated water throughout the region >> than

cohen's credibility during the rebuttal to talk more, let's bring in two of the new york times best peter bakerorrespondent for the times, and msnbc political analys charles savage, washington correspondent for th washington times and msnbc contributor. peter, let's start with you on this reporting very interesting we are hearin right now that, first of all michael cohen saying i'm going back tomorrow, but from th times and your reporting robert costello. why might robert costello be interesting as a rebutta business, right alongsid michael cohen? >> that's a great question i'm not sure i know the answer to it off the top of my head, might -- charlie might know better than i do this granary process, charli might know this better than do, is generally not a adversarial process in which you bring witnesses from bot sides of an issue, it' controlled by the prosecutor the prosecutor can troll who are she wants to put their they did invite donald trump t make an appearance before th grand jury he declined. there isn't a -- they want to bolster michael cohen's credibility. he has already been convict

the 2016 election, andrew weissmann, also "new york times" chief who's correspondent and msnbc, peter bakermeeting at fox news a few weeks after the election, and the crisis about whether to make calls. what do you know about the turmoil within fox news right now considering all of these revelations that have come to light in the dominion filings, showing the divide between fox news hosts and executives and the handful of journalists left at the network alongside what's been happening since tucker carlson decided to frame the insurrection as a bunch of meek sight seers who love the capitol. >> that's the thing to remember at fox news there are, in fact, people who want to commit journalism. there are fewer today because some got fired or decided to leave because they have been frustrated by what happened there. they're learning a lot of things in these filings that they didn't know. things they didn't know about what executives were saying and hosts were saying behind the scenes. i think it's been a very aggravating period for those who want fox to main maintain some degree of journalistic

peter baker writes in the "new york times," so many lines have been cross so many unimaginable events it is easy to lose sight of just how astonishing this particular moment really is history is full of people who have had trouble with the law, particularly politicians from ulysses grant, to richard nixon so gary hart, but never truly a moment like this msnbc political analyst and princeton professor eddie glaude joins us now you know, there are so many things that donald trump has done that sunk other politicians in the past that he shrugged off, norms that he's broken that people have gotten used to, but to peter baker's point, how astonishing is this particular moment, eddie? >> oh, it's historic it's unprecedented in the history of the most stable democracy in the world, in the history of the world, we have never had an occasion where we've had to hold accountable by our criminal justice system a former head of state or a head of state and so we've always carried ourselves as, in fact, the most stable democracy the world has ever seen, and typically in these sorts of moments it re

peter baker, you've written about the politics of this all and the really bad hangover this country stilllly not as much consumers, but to really shore up the banks themselves. there's anger that that ended up helping the shareholders and the bank owners and the investors, the big guys and not so much the little guys. >> sure. if you and i had a business and we went out of business, the government wouldn't step in to protect us the idea was in 2008 that a lot of people who were losing their homes, losing their jobs, losing their life savings felt pretty aggrieved to see the government step in with hundreds of thousands of dollars to shore up the banks. the goal was to keep the system from crashing which would have hurt everybody but this is a long-term hangover, you're right president biden was then the vice president at the time, coming in in january 2009 after george w. bush started the bailouts it was up to obama and biden to continue them. he saw the resentment and the anger and the continuing political damage that that did arguably it gave birth to the tea party movement on the right

peter baker at "the new york times." and glen kirschner. what is the latest on the hush money probe? >> reporter: we're awaiting to see when the grand jury will reconvene. there is a chance it could be as soon as monday. and the question is, to what extent is alvin bragg wrapped up with his work? is he working on a draft indictment at this point to bring forward before the grand jurors or potentially days or weeks away? and has the intention of expanding this probe and trying to build a better case before bringing it before the grand jurors. we do not have an answer to that question. we know that donald trump is remaining here in mar-a-lago, where instead of going before that grand jury and presenting his side of his version of events, before the grand jury under oath, instead he's taken to social media, and tomorrow he is destined to go to texas, waco, texas, where he'll be holding his first formal campaign event. for donald trump, this is a wait and see what alvin bragg decides to do. >> so, peter, meanwhile, where do things stand in the

. >> would that, let's bring i our lead off panel peter baker, chief white house correspondent for the new york times, former federa prosecutor glenn kirschner and celebrity author and presidential historian, michae beschloss. gentlemen, it's good to see yo all. glenn, you heard the reporting there. law enforcement doing what the can ahead of a possibl indictment two questions for you, wha might they know that mixed and think that they need to begi preparing a response, or wha exactly do you think that they are anticipating in dealin with >> i have a feeling that district attorney's office has been coordinating with the law enforcement agencies that ar going to be responsible fo making sure donald trump's first appearance in a criminal case comes off without a hitch and nobody is put in harm' way. i don't think these threat assessments are security assessments are naturall springing up for no reason it really does feel like given all of the indicators we'v seen that and a statement is very likely to come down soo in new york. >> glenn, what democrat trump' attorneys saying that trum wo

find savings and support at caplyta.com. >>> we've been reading from peter baker's great analysis in of the morning in light of the indictment of donald trump entitled "a president faces prosecution and a democracy is tested." peter writes, "for all of the focus on the tawdry details of the case or its political impact, the larger story is of a country heading down a road it has never traveled before, one fraught with profound consequences for the health of the world's oldest democracy for more than two centuries, presidents have been held on a pedestal, even the ones swathed in scandal, declared immune from prosecution in office and afterward no longer. that taboo has been broken a new precedent has been set will it tear the country apart, as some feared after putting a former president on traial afte watergate? or will it become a moment of reckoning, a sign that even someone who was once the most powerful person on the planet is not above the law? >> peter also says, while the indictment takes the country into unchartered waters, the authors of the constitution might have been surp

by susan glasser and peter baker. well, we have that in stock. i will tell you that they they sell well, initially, but they do have a shelf life. and so they get a lot of attention. there is i sense a bit of a of a fatigue with many trump books. i think many readers want to get over it, want to take a look at new things, explore new topics. and so while we put those books on our shelves, i will tell you that after a few weeks, they tend to interest be tends to dissipate. so, congressman israel, if i came in and wanted to read catcher in the rye, j.d. salinger or pg woodhouse, are those classics available as well? my my favorite section. peter is behind me. banned books. my second favorite section are our classics. and i will tell you, they sell very well. people, i think they're returning to great literature and meaningful literature and literature that makes a point and not necessarily a quick 20 books. so we have a very robust bay of shelves that offer those classics and we keep it intentionally cluttered. i love the look of it. it's not the b

president xi jinping officially announced he'll meet with putin in russia next week joining me now is peter bakerter, explain the significance of the hague issuing this arrest warrant. what happens next. >> the international criminal court is not have jurisdiction over russia because they're not a party to the court by the way the united states isn't either it's not like they're going to show up at the kremlin one day and say come with us what it does show an extraordinarily powerful statement by the international community is not just a territorial dispute what is happening here is a war crime. the russians in fact are not just invading their sovereign neighboring country they're taking children, apparently by the thousands according the ukrainians back into russia and putting them through re-education and putting them with russian families. stealing them away from ukrainian families they say they're doing that for humanitarian reasons the criminal court is saying that's not what happening. >> david, what exactly goes into a decision like this how certain would they have to be aboutwhat's happen

we have a lot to cover this hour. >> we certainly do peter baker, your thoughts 20 years later. >> ithrough richard's report one of the best correspondents there over the years and see the complexions that he is showing us i don't know what we would have expected 20 years ago. i have a vivid memory talking to a marine intelligence officer just about to go in on that night. he said i expect to drive straight up to baghdad i don't think it is much of a problem but in the wake there's a rolling civil war. it was very preshent he understood that it was not going to be easy the army could be taken down pretty rapidly an enso many consequences that we wouldn't be able to foresee and was exactly right. i think about that conversation all the time and how some people understood what we were about to get into and most of us did not. >> chris matthews, let's talk about peter baker like he is not here for a second. what an incredible story peter baker wrote this weekend about people connected with ronald reagan interfering with a possible release of iranian hostages give us your thoughts as som

fbi, the local prosecutors they should all stop >> with that, let's bring in our lead off panel peter baker, chief white house correspondent for the new york times, former federa prosecutor glenn kirschner, an celebrated author an presidential historian michael -- it's good to see what. you heard the reporting there. law enforcement are doing what they are doing ahead of possible indictment. two questions for you -- what might they know that make them feel like they need t prepare our response what exactly is it that they are anticipating dealing with? >> you know, i have a feelin that the district attorney's office has been coordinating with the law enforcement agencies which are going to be responsible for making sur donald trump's first appearanc in a criminal case comes off without a hit. no one is put in harm's way. i don't think the threat assessments over securit assessments are sort o naturally springing up for n reason what does it - given all of the indicator that we have seen that a indictment is very likely to come down soon in new york >> what do you make of trump's attorney sa

new york times reporter peter baker said they received an recording of an zoom call days after the electionying this is one of the sad realities, if we hadn't called arizona those three or four days after election our ratings would have been bigger, mystery would have still been hanging out there. those comments from scott are not the only ones raising eyebrows, senior media reporter oliver spoke earlier about jim accosta about some of the revelation >> we saw a lot of detail about shawn hannity took a call, some people were reacting after the election in the wake when viewers were upset but you don't necessarily expect to see that perhaps from the people supposed to be leading the so-called news divisional at fox and in this report you see some, you know, evidence that these people were also concerned about the feelings of individuals trump voters watching the network. in one e-mail that new york times obtained from brett bear, who is the chief washington acre anchor of fox news, he wrote jay wallace the president at fox and he said about the arizona, it's hurting us the sooner we pull it

this "new york times" article by peter baker is details and, you know, conversation inside fox news,mong executives in the days after the election. they're lamenting the fact they followed the facts. he followed a zoom. >> they got the receipts. these are not characterizations of comments. they're comments. >> these are the news folks who are saying, you know, maybe we should have considered talking about -- >> in some ways, bret baier is the person they point to to be the real news anchors. as a contrast to their opinion anchors. what this conversation shows is mark is saying, well, in this trump environment, maybe we shouldn't follow the facts so fast. that's incredibly dangerous. this is not a news organization. this is a partisan operation primarily. but the fates of fox news, the fear they have of their base, the fear of losing rate chgz is also about greed is a parallel to what we're seeing inside the republican party right now, the fear to confront donald trump. it's a form of a syndrome. they're fear to tell the truth. that's not just bad for the republican party, that's bad

peter baker the new york times reports. prepared noted that his campaign was angry, and suggested reversing the call. >> it's hurting, us some of this in a previously reported email sooner we pull it even if it makes this major egg and put it back in his column the better we are in my opinion. he didn't just advocate for taking back the arizona call he wanted to put it back in trump 's column. a state trump didn't win. foxes correct call for arizona was one subject of the public january six committee hearings -- given extremely narrow 3% point chart margin, and then nuclearization the northern network, had four serbia wide ranging postmortem and sound in the call, and no matter how it is executed with the candidates. it's well documented, now thanks to the dominion voting law systems, what the trump system means to the network. house speaker granted tucker carlson -- providing loyal viewers with an alternative narrative to the attack on the capitol. the republican party has been largely silent. donald trump is on the campai

peter baker, thank you for you reporting.ate you coming on >> thank you >> still ahead, conservative complain about wokeness so muc but it's lost all meeting, hasn't it? plus don't forget you ca listen to the mehdi hasan show anytime free wherever you ge your podcasts. i think i changed my mind about these glasses. yeah, it happens. that's why visionworks gives you 100 days to change your mind. it's simple. anything else i can help you with? like what? visionworks. see the difference. okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutrition. together we support immune function. supply fuel for immune cells and sustain tissue health. ensure with twenty-five vitamins and minerals, and ensure complete with thirty grams of protein. a ballet studio, an architecture firm... and homemade barbeque sauce. they're called 'small businesses.' but to the people who build them there's nothing 'small' about them. that's why at t-mobile for business... you'll save more than $1,000 versus verizon. and with price lock guarantee, we'll never r

there is also the reporting from "the new york times" peter baker describing the panic within the company right after the election when they appropriately and accurately called arizona for biden. the fear of angering and potentially losing their audience even had their supposed real journalists like brett bare and martha mack callum that it was not enough to call them and viewer thoughts should be considered. ms. maccallum said the game is very, very different. in an effort to give them what they want to hear knowing it's bs has continued up to literally last night. >> the protestors were angry. they believed that the election they had just voted in had been unfairly conducted. they were right. in retrospect it is clear the 2020 election was a grave betrayal of american democracy given the facts that have since emerged about that election, no honest person can deny it. >> joining me now is aaron blake. katie fang, msnbc legal contributor and curt bardella. aaron, i have been scrolling as quickly as i can through your twitter feed. it's faster than reading through the giant monster filing.

now, thanks to peter baker at the new york times this weekend, we've discovered that even the quote unquoteey both suggested it was not enough to call a state based on numerical calculations. nbc news has not independently heard the recording, but the times report that my column said on-call, quote, in a trump environment, the game is just very, very different. and then he went on to say, i know the statistics and the numbers, but there has to be, like, this other layer. now, let me ask you, what possible other layer could there be? other than the facts? you know, the numbers? look, i've long argued that we should not be calling fox a news organization because it just does not behave like one. given all that we've seen come out of this dominion lawsuit, can anyone seriously disagree with that? coming up at the top of the hour, with a man, -- the counsel unfolding on the republican-led house oversight committee and what he thinks of the channel pay -- channel chair pushing unfounded conspiracies. that's next nine. i'll be back with him after a quick break. don't go away. don't go away. get a

lies but we should be very concerned that the teno of the discussion, even in a piece today by peter bakerspondent, says, our democracy is threatened by prosecuting trump withou giving one word to the thought that, gee, maybe our democracy will be strengthened and reviv because we follow the idea o we are all equal under law >> it's wild because, maya wiley -- the whole job you are in right now in terms of civil and huma rights - the criminal justice system ha been, in many ways, the enem of black citizens, in saying that you are not equal, yo don't get treated the same the central park five -- they were questioned about their parents when they were minors you think of all the depredations, from lynching an on, and now you have the right including members of congress, and united states senators acting as if donald trump bein treated the same way michael cohen was treated for the same crime is some sort of outrag against humanity, and trying t put him in a special categor where he alone is above th law. that, to me, is what damages our democracy, not holding him accountable. >> i think many

let's bring in peter baker msnbc political analyst chie white house correspondent fo the new york times also lisa rubin, our msnbc legal analysts who we very muc appreciate both of you in fact peter, we have mike pence who' calling out trump reac anywhere east sixth. why now, what is his ankle doesn't matter >> why now, look at th calendar he's focused on his ow possible run for the presidenc at this point. watching all of the energy, th alternative part of the part going to run desantis. mike pence is basically trying to carve out a lane fo himself. it's a hard lane for him t find the trump people, always fro people, people who are ver loyal to trump still angry a mike pence and will probably never support him. the never trumpers, people i the party who never politicall like trump and you think he' dangerous, find tends to be to supportive of the former president. he's trying to explain his one most important, most memorable decision in that presidenc with the way that will resonat with at least somebody in th republican party i think what he's saying her is no longer trying to equivoc

here, glenn kirschner, what peter baker, like you so much. when we come back, pulling back the curtain on fox news. we might just call it an fox we've got the. news means defamation suit exposing the inconsistencies between what you see on tv and what is going on behind the scenes. michael steele and basil smikle are here, and they have a lot to say. and later, close calls on the runway and midair scares. there have been a lot of scary plane headlines. the one and only captain sully solid burger helps us figure out why. the 11th hour, just getting underway on this thursday night. hursda night. doors can take us to new adventures and long-term goals. your dedicated fidelity advisor can help you open those doors. by helping you create a comprehensive wealth plan, with the right balance of risk and reward. doors were meant to be opened. oh! it's daylight saving time. what's the big deal? gasp! what's the big deal? what's the big deal? what's the big deal? what's the big deal? ♪marching band music♪ ♪marching band music♪ i'll get a cart. get two!

peter baker in the room. i want to make sure you heard that last point. a little inside baseball joke on what? we'll move on. thank you, eric. ambassador burt. eric was talking just a moment ago about how secretary shultz knew how to leverage foreign service officers at the same time, how to bring in the right talent. the assistant secretaries, the regional, of course, you consequential, important member of his team is that place where you have that interaction, where. share with us some your thoughts about secretary shultz's organizational approach and how you experience it when working for him and inside foggy bottom. well, i will let me just say, first of all, i'm delighted to be here tonight. and i understand looking around this room and seeing some familiar faces that unfortunately i'm going to have to tell the truth. some people were present at in the era. but i know that sort of important question, and i think it on from what eric was saying. i remember very shortly after first meeting secretary shultz, we were in his in his, you know, big black ca

peter baker writes that the monday after the election, several executives convened a zoom meeting discussing, quote, how to keep from angering the network's conservative audience again by calling an election for a democrat before the competition. maybe the fox news executives mused, maybe they should abandon the sophisticated new election predicting system and revert to the slower less accurate model or maybe they should base calls not solely on numbers but on how viewers might react. or maybe they should just delay the calls even if they were right, to keep the audience in suspense and boost viewership. fox's bret baier and martha maccallum, the supposed real journalists there, even suggested it was not enough to call a state based on numerical calculations, the standard for generations. instead, viewer reaction should be considered. in a trump environment, mccallum said, the game is just very, very different. it isn't about accuracy on the right, it isn't about facts. it's telling people what they want to hear, even if it's false or just straight up dangerous. which begs the question, how

s office, vaughn hillyard outside mar-a-lago in west palm beach florida, joined by peter baker chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," msnbc analyst, and co-author of "the divider: trump in the white house 2017 through 2021" and then with me on set is danny cevallos, criminal defense attorney and msnbc legal analyst. gabe, start us off if you will, talk us through the grand jury's schedule today and expectations we have here in new york. >> reporter: good morning, yasmin. all eyes as you mentioned are on that courthouse behind me, and we expect the grand jurors to reconvene sometime this afternoon. they have been reconvening at about 2:00 p.m. eastern time on wednesdays, and right now the big question is will there with potentially another witness as part of this grand jury investigation. that is unclear at this moment, but if there is -- there are no more witnesses, the prosecution could put this up for a vote, and if 12 grand jurors vote to indict former president trump, that indictment would then go under seal. it's possible we might not find out about an indictm