host: peter coleman, do you agree? the justice system, the changes we have made over the years, has been a driver of this polarization? guest: yeah. again, that has become a politicized issue, unfortunately. who was on the supreme court, is it waited left or right? it has always been an issue and a concern. a focus, a political focus for a long time in mobilizing voters, mobilizing partisans in service of packing the court or changing the rules, the number of justices, has been a divisive issue. it is unfortunate. our courts, the supreme court in all courts, are supposed to be where fairness resides. wind justice resides. of course, that is an ideal, it is never true. it is very unfortunate the courts have become so politicized and affected in the ways they have had my lobbyists, religious advocates of different types. it has become a more divisive issue and contributed to not only the loss interest of the system, but it did increase in distress. we have negative expectations for what the courts will do. that is a majo

host: peter coleman, do you agree? the justice system, the changes we have made over the years, has been a driver of this polarization? guest: yeah. again, that has become a politicized issue, unfortunately. who was on the supreme court, is it waited left or right? it has always been an issue and a concern. a focus, a political focus for a long time in mobilizing voters, mobilizing partisans in service of packing the court or changing the rules, the number of justices, has been a divisive issue. it is unfortunate. our courts, the supreme court in all courts, are supposed to be where fairness resides. wind justice resides. of course, that is an ideal, it is never true. it is very unfortunate the courts have become so politicized and affected in the ways they have had my lobbyists, religious advocates of different types. it has become a more divisive issue and contributed to not only the loss interest of the system, but it did increase in distress. we have negative expectations for what the courts will do. that is a majo

host: we will get a response from peter coleman. guest: i hear your frustration with members of both political parties, particularly more extreme members. bad actors in politics, there have always been bad actors in politics. look at countries abroad interested in stabilizing the u.s. it is an ugly system and a tough system, but it is what we have. democracy is what we have. i would be careful to not get discouraged all on the left or all on the right. there is a variety of different reasons why people support donald trump and have followed donald trump. i think centralizing any group into one or two things as completely bad actors is problematic. there are definitely bad actors in various political parties and movements, this is an orientation to controlling power, dividing and conquering groups. we know a fair amount about that. it is not new to political systems. but it is discouraging and frustrating, and it is frustrating when you look at some of our past leaders and the seeds they've sowed and how they have come to roost here,

our guest is peter coleman, the author of "the way out: how to overcome toxic polarization."e is also director of the columbia university international center for cooperation and conflict resolution. in light of your book published last year and the recent election, how do you think things came out in terms of polarization across the country? what do the results of the election tell us? guest: many of them were heartening. like any major election like this, the results were mixed in different directions. but it seemed like some of the challenges to our disinformation, seem to be mitigated. many of the candidates that denied the last election lost. not all of them, but many of them. so i do think it was a good time for democracy. our democracy seems to be holding. i do not think it means the threat of continued polarization, disinformation campaigns are gone. but i think this was -- given the trend we are in, which is something that started in the mid-1970's of increasing disinformation and challenges to institutions, i will take the midterm results. they were promising. host:

house is coming in for a session, our conversation with peter coleman will continue momentarily. the house floor to do the session with the house and be back on washington journal.

peter coleman writes about this, shocks that because high conflict is a system of interlocking diabolical parts that are self-perpetuating leica motion machine. when you have a big shock to the system, could be a weather event, a death, violence, a new common enemy like a virus. when you have a shot, it can append temporarily some of those interlocking systems but you have to seize that opportunity, which is usually left to leadership at the national, or local level. on the one hand, i would say that opportunity was not seized particularly at the national level, lots of variants around the world and the country. it was in some places in some towns. it is also true the duration of this particular kind of cataclysm is important, hard for humans to sustain that feeling. when it goes on and on and there's no chance to recover, this is why looking forward to the future pandemic is so important from a psychological and sociological point of view and biological point of view starts strong and clear with clear messaging tested to try to frontload the reaction so you can make it shorter. it is too

ruth ben-ghiat, charles coleman, peter, great have you here. before we got a break, a quick note, a positive one. oil prices at their lowest level in nearly a year. that's helping to drive gas prices down. the national average for a gallon of gas is about $3. 55. that's down by nearly 6% from last month. in the past week, or loads of people were driving because of the thanksgiving holiday, gas prices dropped by 12 cents. the biggest weekly decline since early august. always try to give you good news when we have it. coming up, one week, one week until george's critical senate runoff. people, especially young ones, we were just saying, it are waiting hours to vote. they want to have their voices heard. an election update, just ahead. and later, the ftx crypto scandal, questions about consumer protections and political influence after the collapse of one of the biggest cryptocurrency exchanges. the 11th hour just getting underway on an important monday night. in 3 seconds, this couple will share a perfect moment. oh, wow. but we got to sell our h

host: peter coleman on the washington journal.his morning we are asking you what policy issue you will discuss at the thanksgiving table. here's kenneth in illinois with a text. we will be discussing the sanctity of protecting our votes. good morning to you. caller: these are excellent questions. the term, some people stick to politics. but you don't have to necessarily have to do that. i would like to ask the questions, are you familiar with the thanksgiving holiday? how it began and how it became too what it is today? because we don't have to talk about the politics. it is not just turkey and cranberry sauce. people want to talk about those blankets wrapped in smallpox that they gave to the natives of the country for thinking them for helping for a tough winter and assisting with certain things that they were not familiar with. if people want to stay in politics that is fine. but what i find interesting is it doesn't necessarily matter with the questions you ask, he will find that the response is going to tell you quickly if you