and, you know, peter forsellly who's faced a lot of retaliation for speaking out about this said, you know, under oath in front of congress that we weren't giving guns to people who were hunting bear, we were giving people to kill other people. and so, essentially, humans were being used as collateral damage to push this agenda of we need more regulation on border state gun shops. >> but they really didn't track for guns. >> no. right. >> there was that was the whole point of it was to track the guns, and they didn't track them. >> right. the only way their traceable now, when they show up at violet crime scenes, they're left at that scene, and then they're traced back to these gun dealers in the united states who were participating in this program. and one thing i want to bring up, too, is, you know, because the media hasn't really been paying attention to this in a way that they should be, um, they haven't really been digging into who the players are behind fast and furious. and the people in the chess game are always very important. and one person who was key to this entire thing w