peter hitchens is here.ll him a legend as well during the break and the co—founder of novara media, aaron bastani. you will be a legend one day. aaron you're not quite there yet. he is. and also the legend of the political world. christopher still world. christopher hope is still with talking about with us. so we're talking about this you did keir this interview you did with keir starmer chris, starmer this afternoon. chris, what the highlights? were what are the highlights? were there you? what are the highlights? were the well, you? what are the highlights? were the well, iju? what are the highlights? were the well, i asked him about he's >> well, i asked him about he's got in this got a personal interest in this in the conflict in in israel with the hamas . his wife, with the hamas. his wife, victoria, is jewish. the two children are jewish and i've read that he observes friday with the family. and i think that's you know, he's obviously he and he's very clear on on the way on condemning hamas. i thought

hi there, michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight alongside me, peter hitchens, matthew stadlen t whether or not there should be a general election . peter says sunak is election. peter says sunak is doing a very good job in very difficult circumstances and i've got to say, peter, a lot of people don't give the tories credit for the amount of stuff that has gone on that has been entirely outside of their control . well, i wonder how control. well, i wonder how would any party have fared, quite frankly, over these last few years ? charlie says. few years? charlie says. michelle no , definitely not. to michelle no, definitely not. to a general election. he reckons labour party will get in and he says, god help us if they do. clive says we need someone who is strong and who will listen to the people. i think he's suggesting he will vote for the reform party when that comes along. >> michelle, one really interesting thing because you said before the break about the new a critical of the monopoly of power by these two main parties. >> no, i'm i'm i'm critical of the monopoly of entitl

so peter hitchens a huge so peter hitchens is a huge onnell fan. yeah.> i mean, you may not have been a very nice person. no i don't think he was. >> he wasn't very nice to his wife. he was difficult and not very kind towards women. i don't think. but that doesn't stop him being a great writer . being a great writer. >> yeah. and if you go through any of the great artists or any of the great authors, if you go through who was the personal lives, then perhaps you wouldn't have some of the greatest works that have of the day. that we have of the day. >> skeletons shall >> we've all got skeletons shall we our cupboards. we're we say, in our cupboards. we're all capable of not not having the personalities at time the best personalities at time or, you know, not well, you know, for yourself. >> no , we are because we're >> no, we are because we're human and we're flawed and we're fundamentally flawed . fundamentally flawed. >> and we have free will to be either to well or not to either to behave well or not to behave well or well. shall we say. very good. so,

chamberlain's policy in 1939, though, and hoover was one of the first to actually make this argument peter hitchens, among others, has also recently made it be tailor made a similar case more than a half century ago was that by extending this guarantee to poland, he effectively ripped up any chance of an agreement between poland and germany. it's a little bit delicate to talk about, particularly because poles are so proud of their history, of defiance and of fighting and they don't like to be remind it did that until roughly january to march of 39. they were effectively allied to nazi germany or at the very least negotiating on a very friendly basis with nazi germany. but in fact, chamberlain's guarantee is a little bit like throwing a, you know, a great big wrench in the works. it not just accelerate hitler's own plans with his own designs on poland. it also and this is the delicate part, convinced the poles that they had a security guarantee from britain, which they didn't really have. if you read the fine print, i actually did a column in this last year when i was talking about what i consider t

peter hitchens also give another point. peter hi'gay1s also give another point.marriage is a kind of of gay marriage is a kind of trap for conservative us because really it's a issue really it's a minor issue compared decline really it's a minor issue co marriage decline really it's a minor issue co marriage and decline really it's a minor issue co marriage and it's decline really it's a minor issue co marriage and it's used decline really it's a minor issue co marriage and it's used to :line of marriage and it's used to trap and make them trap conservatives and make them look and bigoted. look fusty and bigoted. >> remember andrew, you >> do you remember andrew, you probably andrew probably aware of andrew sullivan, a conservative gay american , and he was pro gay american, and he was pro gay marriage, right. and i think he not initially and but came around and i've been quite interested his of interested to read his sort of commentary . and it has commentary on it. and it has been ovennhelmingly successful for hoped it for the reasons he hoped it would be, that

. >> hitchens has been >> peter hitchens has been writing and peter writing today, and peter worked with him to by elections and a brilliant political and he was a brilliant political reader of situations and always said , no, by—election said to me, no, by—election result means anything. what so even result means anything. what so ever, because it's always where people get rid of their grudges. it's a protest and a protest and put it back. >> i know that. we know that. but i mean, i believe i listen to peter curtis, who is a well known peter, john, john curtis, john curtis, a well known polling pollster. and he said this is all of those things about by elections and it's always, you know, revenge. it's this it's that there's not a big turnout but he was saying historically if you look at the way this is the result and the numbers, this is actually all turning into what came before. but but again, tony blair, again, when you say the result, look at the numbers, although the percentages sound huge in terms of the swing, the actual numbers between labour and tories who came second in both

i've got we've got peter hitchens and aaron bastani on tonight. interesting.shedding hopefully a little bit of light this little bit of light on this situation what might situation. yeah. and what might be happening . be happening. >> so let's cut across to you, but i'm going to go back to charlie now. it's all right. charlie now. no, it's all right. we're going to go to we're going to go back to charlie now. charlie peters, who is, for us. is, i believe, available for us. charlie listened briefing >> the briefings finished. >> oh, the briefings finished. it's all good. they're all leaving. perfect timing. we leaving. so perfect timing. we can take a deep breath and have a sigh of relief. oh we've just had an know. think we're okay. had an know. i think we're okay. okay. you what. we all okay. i'll tell you what. we all rush shelter, the rush into this shelter, and the last minutes. last ten minutes. >> go to shot of >> let's go to this shot of where charlie is. i want i where charlie is. i want to i want where charlie is. if want to see where charlie is. if w