very peter kirkham back. do we? very quickly? do. peter, peter kirkham back. do we? k. do we? very quicklyou . do. peter, peter kirkham back. do we? very quicklyou . sorry. io. peter, peter kirkham back. do we? very quicklyou . sorry. yes,3ter, peter kirkham back. do we? very quicklyou . sorry. yes, go, peter kirkham back. do we? very quicklyou . sorry. yes, go on. thank you. sorry. yes, go on. you're on, peter, you're on. do not swear. no do you think the death penalty be death penalty will be a deterrent ? deterrent? >> i don't think it would. i mean, in cases like this, you have plainly got mental health issues going on. and that raises another issue . should we put another issue. should we put people to death who are ill effectively or psychological illness ? but no, the there's the illness? but no, the there's the other category of murders which are not falling to our spur of the moment ones where, no, there's not going to be a deterrent impact . things as it were. were. >> were. >> look, thank you very , very >> look, thank you very, very much. it was great to o

peter kirkham,ter, should say. and so they can maybeyou. peter kirkham, former thank you.t story for highlight that story for you. shocking different highlight that story for you. shockirnot different highlight that story for you. shockirnot the different highlight that story for you. shockir not the fact fferent highlight that story for you. shockirnot the fact that nt levels, not least the fact that clearly there are opportunistic people would people out there who it would appear of appear are in the business of stealing kids off the streets in our capital city. but difference, different stuff . difference, different stuff. >> now, michelle dewberry you say a different stuff, but i was listening to that. if you think this is just something happening in this capital city, got in this capital city, you've got another got another thing coming. i've got a real about this issue real concern about this issue and there's a lot of and i think there's a lot of these are going on these things that are going on that not hearing that we're perhaps not hearing about. talking the abou

peter kirkham now, is kirkham joins me now, who is a former detective inspector former detective chief with metropolitan police . with the metropolitan police. peter, very much. do peter, thank you very much. do young today just not care ? young kids today just not care? >> yeah, to a large extent, yes i >> certainly things have headed in that direction . we've got in that direction. we've got a couple of things to thank for that. >> first of all, the encouragement of their peers via social media. >> tiktok, i believe, in this case was the central bit of social media that was used. >> and egging each other on and encouraging each other. but also, don't forget, we've got a generation now, what were these kids? 16, 17, 18, something like that. kids? 16, 17, 18, something like that . um, they've mostly grown that. um, they've mostly grown up in a time when there were virtually no police on the street. they're just not used to seeing the police on the street. they've not been socialised into expecting police to intervene and tell them to stop doing things and so it's all a bit of a mystery