peter lloyd and lisa mckenzie. lisa, what's your view? do you agree with gavin ashenden?, i'm. i'm an >> i do, actually, i'm. i'm an atheist. i'm an anarchist. i believe in human autonomy, but i also believe in community, family and love. i do believe that. so i am very much in agreement. actually, i'm quite surprised how much commonality there is between my anarchist atheist principles and the principles of, of atheist principles and the principles of , of the church . principles of, of the church. >> actually, how about you, the anarchist at heart? >> oh yeah, i completely agree . >> oh yeah, i completely agree. and i speak as someone whose mother is in end stage palliative care right now , and palliative care right now, and she has been very, very sick with pulmonary fibrosis, terminal pulmonary fibrosis for at least the last year. and my me and my brothers and my cousins, we've all come together to be at her bedside. and for us, that's a really , really us, that's a really, really important process as a family. and only this week i went to see my parish priest. i'm a