i regret i did so little for the struggle here in the united kingdom, but my friend, peter pike, with 26 years in the anti-apartheid movement before he even set foot in south africa, deserves his voice heard today. i asked him over the weekend what he would say if he were here, and he told me of his memories of a visit. he told me, he reminded me of that -- [inaudible] who believed that god created reptiles, birds, animals, black people, brown people and white people and that they should all keep their place as a species, and he thumped his bible as he told us. he undermined his argument later by declaring he had prove that mrs. thatcher was a marxist infiltrator. [laughter] peter reminded us of the time on our next visit that we were going through the airport in johannesburg, and he asked why the security was building up as we approached the security gate. i said it might be the large free nelson mandela badge he was wearing on his lapel. he said to one of the security guards, is it illegal for me to wear the badge? and he was told very brusquely, it's not illegal, but it's extremely

speaker, between 1986 and 1990 the right honorable gentleman, myself and peter pike, the former member for burnly, made three visits to south africa at the invitation of the followers of christ working for a peaceful resolution of the situation there. on our return from our first visit, we made joint speech speeches in a debate here in the house of commons on june the 17th referring to each other as our honorable friends, a point dually note -- duly noted by -- [inaudible] we had gone together, safety in numbers, at a time when the anc was still banned, the political situation deteriorating, violence abroad and where the isolation of south africa was impacting on the flow of anything. we found and were able to report back to our respective party leaders, and i had half an hour with an anxious, worried and very uncertain margaret thatcher. we reported back on the tragic success of apartheid in separating one person from another, on the urgency of the need for change to avoid a looming catastrophe and how the united kingdom's public position also needed to change. but we also and apparen

i regret that i did so little for the struggle here in the united kingdom, but my friend peter pike, with 26 years in the anti-apartheid movement before he even set foot in south africa, deserves to have his voice heard today. i asked him over the weekend what he would say if he were here, and he told me of his memories of the visits. he reminded me that one m.p. had believed god created reptiles, birds, animals, black people, brown people. and white people and that they should all keep their places as species -- and he thumped his bible to prove it. he undermined his argument, however, by declaring that he had proof that mrs thatcher was a marxist infiltrator. [laughter] peter reminded us of how, on our next visit, he had asked why the security was building up as we approached the security gate at johannesburg airport. i said it might be because of the large "free nelson mandela" badge he was wearing on his lapel. [laughter] he asked one of the security guards, "is it illegal for me to wear the badge?" he was told very briskly, "it is not illegal, but it is extremely inadvisable." [

caller: the syrian savaging with fiveawk missiles, you had people from daniel pike, peter wiener -- hostk, thank you for your call. guest: jack, you and i disagree on a lot of foreign policy issues, but people share your view on c-span, i will not complain, they have a right to share their case. you call someone a spohn of spawn, that -- -- sort of name calling is not constructive. people who share your point of you have a right to air it. and i am not a warmonger. i think it's a result comes -- if a result comes peaceably, we should. diplomacy is a means, not an end. riskplomacy is the end, we paving over rural problems -- r eal problems that later on can really bite us. today is the summer seven, -- is december 7, the anniversary of pearl harbor. in the years leading up to pearl harbor, there was an insistence that diplomacy would field a way to deal with the growing problem of the nazis and imperial japan. if people had been a little more shrewd and maybe been a little more willing to at least talk about the possibility that if diplomacy fails we do have a backup plan, we might have a