in the past, he has worked with michael cohen's attorney, guy petrillo. daniel has also just been named an msnbc legal analyst. so welcome to the family. and in honor of that, you get the first question, daniel. the "washington post" has just published a story on this in which it writes some in trump's orbits say the interview was a miscalculation if it was an attempt to reach out to the president, whom cohen had served since 2007 for attention, financial support, or even a pardon that would end cohen's legal predicament. you and i were talking earlier. you don't think this was orchestrated to be a message to the president at all? >> no. none of what came out in the abc news reports it seems to me to be a plea to trump for anything. in fact, the language he was using, the comments that he made distancing himself from the use of the word witch-hunt, distancing himself from some of the allegations that trump has made about mueller, even going so far as the say i will not be a punching bag, that's not an indication of somebody who is trying to cozy up throug

abc news is also reporting that petrillo -- once petrillo takes over a joint defense agreement cohenred with the president which allowed their lawyers to share information in documents with each other will come to an end. what does that mean? >> this is a huge deal. the reason you enter into a joint defense agreement with a co-defendant usually is because you want to share attorney-client privileged material because you're presenting a combined defense. your interests are aligned. once your interests are no longer aligned and you have antagonistic defenses as we call, it which is just legal jargon for you want to throw the other guy under the bus, that's when you break a joint defense agreement. heretofore the defense has been nothing to see here, we did nothing wrong. now it looks like the defense is going to be that guy did it. and that's exactly when you stop abiding by the terms of this agreement. i think that's more of an indicator he's going to cooperate as opposed to this interview. >> also of note here, this interview with abc cohen made a point to distance himself from the p

guy petrillo. a veteran of the southern district of new york. he was the head of the criminal division there, so, he knows these prosecutors well. secondly, and this is very, very significant. when guy petrillo formally comes onboard, that will mark the end of the joint defense agreement that michael cohen's lawyers have had with president trump and his attorneys and their allies' attorneys, to share information, to share strategy. once he comes onboard, that agreement is going to be over. that means the sides could be in a much mored a ver ed adversari position. >> george stephanopoulos with that exclusive interview tonight. george, thank you. >>> next tonight, news about that deadly boat explosion in the bahamas. american tourists onboard. investigators looking into what caused the blast that killed a mother and injured at least nine other people. one of the victims, a daer losing her legs while on a family vacation. here's abc's erielle reshef. >> reporter: tonight, officials in the bahamas investigating what caused e enneur boat to explode,

>> well, i think that petrillo has probably given some advice already to cohen. and in terms of the joint defense agreement, it may or may not have ever existed. it seems like it did. but there is also been some communication today that suggests that what was going on now had to do with the search warrant and that pursuant to that the documents went from the federal prosecutors to cohen and his lawyers, for them to review, to make initial claims. but since his principal client was donald trump, he was also instructed to share any with donald trump that he thought were privileged. now, presumably he wouldn't have shared any that were from shawn hannity's representation. he would have only shared those that pertained to attorney-client privilege with the president. so if that was the case, then that is ended because the search warrant has been executed and the documents reviewed. >> barbara, is there any reason for guy to be hanging back, waiting for this evidentiary evaluation to be completed on exactly what will be admissible evidence and what will be protected b

and how do you know petrillo is not going to accept it? he wants to get paid, doesn't he? >> he does, but there are certainly ethical obligations on lawyers that you can't be paid essentially to fail to cooperate against someone. >> garber, do you agree? >> yeah, well, that's sort of my point. if what he's being paid for -- his fees are being paid for, you know, for his legal defense, as you say, chris, arising out of his activities with the trump organization, that's one thing. but if he's being paid to not cooperate, to not talk, that becomes problematic. and if i were representing trump, i'd probably tell him, look, you should assume that right now, right now michael cohen is cooperating. so you shouldn't be talking to anybody about -- >> we know he's been cooperating, right? everybody who asks him for stuff, he produces it. we're talking about something else. we're talking about him working with prosecutors on a -- >> but that's what cooperation is. i don't think we know that michael cohen is cooperating. he had his office searched. he didn't have any choice in that. b

so cohen's got guy petrillo, this sort of storied sdny prosecutor, coming on board. and one assumes if cohen wants to talk to prosecutors and sdny about it, a deal, petrillo can just pick up the phone and do that. it seems far more likely that cohen is talking to that proverbial audience of one we hear so much about, the president. and he let the president know exactly when he could turn on his tv and tune in to hear what cohen had to say. and it looks like that last drowning man gasp, the last time your head goes above walt sxwrir say please throw me a lifeline, mr. president so, i don't have to flip and testify against you. >> michael avenatti, who of course represents stormy daniels in the lawsuit against michael cohen, that was sort of his theory. i want to play what he had to say and nick get your reaction. take a listen. >> i have to tell you, i think this interview this morning in a big way was a big nothing burger. this is michael cohen trying to send a message to the president that he wants the president to pay his legal bills or he's going to flip. he's pla

to that would be donald trump paying his legal fees because i don't think that a lawyer like guy petrillo would counsel his client any differently. there are ethical rules around that and, one, i don't know if he would even take the money from donald trump. even if he did, he could not take it if it would cause him to give different advice to his client. so, if that's what this signal is about, you know, it's not going to go very far. >> it's not going to work. let's go down memory lane and look again at how donald trump reacted on the day of the search and raid of michael cohen's home and offices. attack on the country. >> it's a disgrace, a real disgrace. it's an attack on our country in a true sense. >> i wanted to put up from our friend jennifer ruben, potential financial crimes, financial ties to russia, any meetings between trump and russians or meetings cohen took on trump's behalf with russians and either campaign contacts -- someone close to cohen described what michael cohen could be sitting on is potentially nuclear for the president. >> there's no question about that. this guy

and i'm dave petrillo. we invented coffee joulies.

>> so with lanny davis and another lawyer, a very effective guy petrillo, he now has better defense attorneysmp. he is like more ethical and skilled version of rudolph giuliani. as you indicated, he can go into full attack dog mode for his client. he is also known as a deal maker. so if he is looking to make a deal with mueller, then lanny davis is the perfect guy to do that. and do you expect it helps in the case with michael avenatti who has been pretty aggressive against cohen in the public media? >> they both have very good media skills. but at the end of the day, what will impress him, michael cohen ran trump's businesses along with ivanka and don jr. almost certainly the will be a question of the improprieties. >> does it make it in your view more likely? there has been this question of why michael cohen has resisted, turning on trump and helping out the mueller investigation. does it make to you more likely that he will now do it? >> we're hearing, i think, different interpretations of michael cohen. he's indicated that now his loyalty isn't to trump but rather in opposition to the uni

i mean, he's got guy petrillo who was the head of the criminal division at the united states attorneys office for the southern district. what he's added in the form of lanny davis is someone who has literally been a fixer for the clintons during the ken starr investigation, who actually his job was to be the public spokesperson. in essence, he was a volunteer for the clintons who was essentially out there to be the person who pushed back very hard on the narrative and created narrative about ken starr's poor judgment. something really interesting about lanny davis is he did an interview in which he talked about first making the mistake of going after ken starr as an ideologue, republican conspiracy against the clintons and learned to shift after having a conversation with john mccain to making it much more about judgment. i think this is very interesting because my guess is this is going to be a role he's going to play for michael cohen. although in this instance, possibly helping to restore some credibility to michael cohen if and when he flips, because if he flips, one of the things

. >> yeah, guy petrillo is his attorney, by the way. we haven't heard much from him. we've only been hearing from lanny davis who is representing him, i guess, as his attorney in the media, but not -- >> media spokesman. >> media spokesman, but not his official attorney. we have much more to talk about, there are other things on that tape. they mention the divorce between ivana. they also mention some of the reverends there who are supporters of donald trump. what were they saying? we can't use him anymore. what's going on with all this? we'll be right back. hey there people eligible for medicare. gimme one minute... and i'll tell you some important things to know about medicare. first, it doesn't pay for everything. say this pizza is your part b medical expenses. this much - about 80% - medicare will pay for. what's left is on you. that's where an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company comes in. this type of plan helps pay some of what medicare doesn't. these are the only plans to carry the aarp endorsement for meeting

guy petrillo is not commenting. neither is lanny davis. this has nothing to do with the sdny. we don't know. >> the southern district got a search warrant for his office. that much we know. you don't get a search warrant for a lawyer's home and office without substantial evidence of probable cause that there's evidence of a crime there. we still don't know what crimes they're talking about, whether they relate to the president or then-candidate or then-private developer trump in any way. but we do know -- we can conclude michael cohen is in a world of trouble, but how much trouble he's in and what he's going to do about it, that remains still pretty serious. >> we know both sides have looked at these documents. maybe they're seeing different things in these documents and what they might imply. >> the documents that were taken from cohen's home, his hotel room, his office, his safe governme deposit box, including all the audio recordings he may have had. >> and giuliani was confident in the sunday shows there's nothing in there to show anything. what we don't know is what mr. c

michael avenatti, as he noted there, cohen has got new counsel in this case, guy petrillo. >> that is based on what cohen told jimmy this morning that's going to take -- >> right. . his attorneys retained for that review are going to accept aside. it's no secret if you retain a former sdny prosecutor that you're looking to cut some deal. you're looking for a connection that lawyer has with his old cronies in the office to get a good deal. so what michael cohen's looking at now is going in there, talking with prosecutors. he will engage with what is known as a proffer session which he will be what's called queen for the day, meaning everything that he tells them could not be used against him. you can look at the veracity of that point. likely they know it but they're looking for michael cohen to verify that. but then it's cooperation. the cooperation process is a long one. >> caroline, stand back for a second. bob, come in on this. i want to know what your report is telling you what the relationship right now between donald trump and michael cohen. it was strike to here stephanopoulos

know if the prosecutors are interested in what he may or may not have or whether his lawyer, guy petrillot talked to the prosecutors. i think what we have going on here is sort of a battle for the hearts and minds, but we really don't know what's going on in the southern district of new york at this particular moment. >> here's what his source says. the message is that cohen feels it's time to tell his version of the truth. cohen's version of the truth is not giuliani's version or trump's version, which is the opposite of the truth. dana, this one is for you. friends say that the most important thing said in the stephanopoulos interview is cohen feels he thought some of his decisions were in his best judgment but in hindsight, they may not have been right. and cohen no longer recognizes the man he knew and worked for. to him, there's a different man at 1600 pennsylvania avenue than he knew and worked for. this is the tip of the iceberg of what cohen needs to do to make things right. >> that is really so key, don. this is donald trump's protector, fixer. i mean, gloria referenced this. he

. >> yeah, guy petrillo is his attorney, by the way. we haven't heard much from him.ve only been hearing from lanny davis who is representing him, i guess, as his attorney in the media, but not -- >> media spokesman. >> media spokesman, but not his official attorney. we have much more to talk about, there are other things on that tape. they mention the divorce between ivana. they also mention some of the r reverends there who are supporters of donald trump. we can't use him any more. what's going on with all this? we'll be right back. capri sun has four updated drinks. now with only the good stuff. do you know how to use those? nope. get those kids some capri sun! nope. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months, ... with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitori

thing to me that stuck out from this interview was the fact that when he hires his new attorney, guy petrillo who was the chief of the criminal division in the southern district of new york later this week, that there will no longer be what's called a joint defense agreement with the president. that is an agreement whereby lawyers and clients can share documents, can share information, can share strategy. and that is usually an indication that you're breaking with someone, you're not going to have a shared strategy going forward, so you're going on your own, which usually means that you're going to cooperate. >> fair enough. i do want to point out nbc news' reporting is a little different on this topic than where abc is. but sahil, let's talk about the politics of this a little bit. in your view, why would michael cohen do this? i thought it was so interesting that he seems to be explicitly talking about the valor of the country's fbi agents, in some ways drag himself out from the tabloid world. this was not with "the new york post" it was with abc news. >> is he trying to sending a message t

cohen's counsel, guy petrillo, the new lawyer due to start this week, quote that. >> stuck to an kaaudionly format. quote, for months, people in his circle told me about the possibility of him sitting down with the formidable anchor. they said he would talk to steph stephanopoulos perhaps with his family onset to demonstrate the legal toll. all of this would be heavily promoted, maybe for weeks and it would be truly revealing and intimate. this was not on a broadcast. it was revealed by tweet about 12 hours ahead of the interview's publication and stephanopoulos' on-air unveiling. the last-minute roll-out was triggered by an acute sense of urgency. what is driving that acute sense of urgency? and why is he doing this last-minute rush to interview where there isn't any lead-up at all, where he's wearing the suit, but then he can't be on camera at the last second. what's the connection of this weird new rushed half interview and him getting a new lawyer and ending his agreement with the president. what's going on? joining us senior editor emily jane fox at "vanity fair." thank you for bein

a source says the decision to go public with the tape was approved by cohen's attorney guy petrillo, who's known for a by the book mentality and used to work in the southern district. but it's important to note, wolf, as of now cohen has not spoken to federal investigators. wolf? >> important information indeed. brynn gingras, thank you. now the special counsel's investigation and his focus on the president's tweets. let's go to our white house correspondent abby phillip. abby, robert mueller's apparently particularly interested in mr. trump's tweets about jeff sessions and james comey. >> reporter: that's right, wolf. the president's penchant for attacking his political opponents could be causing him more legal troubles. his attacks on attorney general jeff sessions and former fbi director james comey have come under mueller's scrutiny. and they could be a subject of conversation with the president if they were to sit down for an interview. and all of this as we're learning that the president is still trying to clean up the fallout from his helsinki press conference with vladimir pu

my understanding from the reporting is that guy petrillo had some influence over that and seemed to controlave to say since lanny davis has gotten on board, you know, it's been a little more out of control and i don't think he's helping himself with getting a cooperation agreement. >> robert costa, you're in touch with lanny davis and others around michael cohen. any sense that they feel like mimi's analysis is wrong, that releasing this evidence strengthened their client in some other capacity other than legal that we're not talking about? >> they believe that since cohen is not charged at this moment with anything, clearly he's under scrutiny having his offices and his hotel room and all of that raided by investigators. they are trying to make a public case. and cohen is someone who is very cognizant as someone who worked for president trump for a decade about public reputation. and they're trying to show that he's -- he has material on the president, he has material on many things he's done over the years. the key thing i'm wondering as a reporter is this really a play for a pardon. davi

>> so, with lanny davis, and another lawyer, a very effective guy petrillo, michael cohen now has better defense attorneys than president trump. in some ways, lanny davis is like a more ethical and skilled version of rudy giuliani. he can go into full attack dog mold for his client, but he's better known as a deal-maker. those are his skills more than being in the courtroom. and so, if, as reported, michael cohen is looking to make a deal with mueller, then lanny davis is the perfect guy to do that. >> and as his former law professor, do you suspect that the lanny davis hire helps michael cohen against michael avenatti, who has been pretty aggressive against cohen in public media? >> yeah, again, they both have very good media skills, but you know, at the end of the day, what's going to impress mueller about michael cohen is what he's g got. who he's got the goods on and if he has it with president trump. it's likely that he does. michael cohen essentially ran trump's businesses, so, almost certainly, some -- cohen will have evidence about some improprieties with the trump organization.

changed his twitter account affiliation with trump, hired a new defense attorney from new york, guy petrillo, also long-time clinton defender lanny davis, part of president clinton's legal team when he faced impeachment. the white house refused to answer questions about cohen. >> is the president worried after his comments this morning that michael cohen is going to flip and has he considered at all paying michael cohen's legal fees? >> i'm not going to answer questions on this topic and would refer you to the president's outside counsel. >> can you at least tell us whether the president watched the interview this morning and potentially how he feels about the idea that his former attorney said that he would put his wife, his son, his family and his country first but not the president? >> once again, i'm not going to weigh into this issue and refer you to the president's outside counsel. >> it's a good thing that we have the president's outside counsel here, rudy giuliani. thanks for coming back, mayor. >> thank you. >> let's start right there. what was the president's reaction to that inter