that was largely pfi.government of all colours have used pfi from 1982 to 2018, several project spanned a decade. but frankly, they are the legal loan sharks of the public sector because the way in which these contracts are written and the commitments they make have allowed these companies to notjust hike up their fees, but to repeatedly benefit from the fact that we don't let schools and hospitals go bust. so whether it is the dividends they are paying for the dividends they are paying for the directors or the fact that we have paid for the inflation increases for these and you heard from that school, i have schools in my constituency affected by it. tell us about the _ my constituency affected by it. tell us about the effects in your constituency.— us about the effects in your constituency. look, they are wide-ranging. _ constituency. look, they are wide-ranging. i— constituency. look, they are wide-ranging. i represent. constituency. look, they are wide-ranging. i represent a | wide—ranging. i represent

pfi 2.0.ve to... pfi 2.0. we will need a public and _ will have to... pfi 2.0. we will need a public and private - need a public and private partnership because if we don't, we will have _ partnership because if we don't, we will have to — partnership because if we don't, we will have to say if health gets this, — will have to say if health gets this, schools can't get that, that is not _ this, schools can't get that, that is not acceptable and we have to find an _ is not acceptable and we have to find an acceptable way of lowering the cost _ find an acceptable way of lowering the cost of capital to the private sector— the cost of capital to the private sector in — the cost of capital to the private sector in finding a way to borrow with them — sector in finding a way to borrow with them and work with them and invest— with them and work with them and invest with — with them and work with them and invest with them, sometimes risking investments in energy and sometimes having _ investments in en

. >> the supermarkets you might do, but i do think that that the rot set in there with the pfi obsessions quite a lot of the time the maintenance contracts are tied in with the loans for the buildings, aren't they? >> so they don't have a choice but to pay that. and it's like it's crippling, but nobody in the nhs seems to care too much. >> the only other thing is, does it not dilute notion of the it not dilute the notion of the female menopause, which is a very real hormonal change? i think it trivialises it. i think this is an insult to women. yeah, but you know what, mark? >> i mean , you know, not every >> i mean, you know, not every single woman has to make a big, big meal out of it. do that. and i know that that's not a thing when it happens, when i've got all women on the panel, when it happens to you, you will change your happens to you, you will change you no, it's happened to me. >> no, it's happened to me. >> no, it's happened to me. >> i've had it. well it's happened me. happened to me. >> to say, i was >> and i have to say, i was working so hard, i didn't notice it. >> so the

i mean of course of those kind of course a lot of those kind of pfi turned be pfi contracts turned outtroversial because they deeply controversial because the money many situations. for money in many situations. i think the problem is we've always ricocheted think the problem is we've always should, ricocheted think the problem is we've always should, should�*heted think the problem is we've always should, should theed between should, should the taxpayer bill? taxpayer be more of the bill? should of the should we be using more of the private sector ? it does feel private sector? it does feel like of deeper like a kind of deeper conversation be had conversation needs to be had about the the nhs about just the way the nhs is structured. it's incredibly centralised . there's all these centralised. there's all these kinds which many kinds of issues which many people brought up, but you people have brought up, but you just could have just hope that we could have that debate because long that debate because for so long politicians that debate because for so long politerrified of meddling, to