we have a ton of experience, like you robinson of 'lroc' and phil christensen and jim bell on mastcam and those are instruments on larger spacecrafts but this is an opportunity for asu to build, design, test, and fly and operate a spacecraft all out of asu. >> can we talk for a moment and i want to explore this a little more in the next segment, manned versus unmanned. can we learn what we need to learn without putting people in spacecrafts? or are they, do they augment each other? >> i don't think it's versus. unmanned. as a computer scientist, of course i love robots. but as a cooperative -- >> it's a lot less expensive. >> it is less expensive, but not always, because it depends on what you allow the robot to do. so i think the human traverses on the moon have been far longer in terms of distance than curiosity has traveled on mars. >> yet, to try to keep astronauts alive during the duration of the flight and all of the redundancies to keep them alive, that is wickedly expensive. >> it is extremely expensive. >> truth be told, curiosity can't just go flip over a rock or drill as ea