person than my friend gayle said, you are going to fail in chicago, because i was going up against phil donahue phil who? >> [laughter] >> [applause] oprah: it didn't matter to me, because i did not think he was beatable, and i actually said it to my boss, who has gone on to do great things in television. dennis swanson said, we know you can't beat him, so don't worry about it. just be yourself. and that saved me. because -- imagine little chubby meet with the jerry curl, being told, now you have got to go and you have got to beat phil donahue. he just said we are a local show, and so if you can get a number, we will take it. so i had no pressure, no pressure, so i just went on the air and was myself. david: he ultimately left chicago and moved to new york because of the competition, i guess, i'm not sure. oprah: i beat him, david, i did. >> [laughter] >> [applause] oprah: i wasn't even trying to, but you know it is just like -- david: i'm sympathetic to white men with white hair, but you did very well. oprah: he was so gracious, and i often, i have always said had there not been a phil donahue

. >> at the beginning of the decade we get the dominance of phil donahue and that is a maturation of audience and through the tv screen. >> i'm glad you called. kiss the kids. we'll be back in just a moment. >> if you look at the body of work we've had, you're going to see the '80s there. >> i'm not here to say you're wrong. but let's understand this. when you bring a moral judgment without knowing them, against them for the way that they look, they feel thatonrms the reason for theirebellion, if that is what you want to call it. >> he believed that daytime television needed to talk about the ideas we were thinking about, the issues we were concerned about. >> i don't want to characterize his question, but why don't you get this fixed instead of doing this screwy stuff? >> there is not a single recorded case in history of any transsexual that ever, through psychological treatment, changed. it has never happened yet. >> and we were putting very important people on the program. all kinds of people. gay people. people going to jail. people running for office. sometimes the same people.

>> i was down at mar-a-lago and asked him about nixon, and he told me a story he was on the phil donahue ri richard nixon that young man, this is in the early '80s, that man will be president some day. he's so good on tv. >> nixon said that about trump? >> and nixon wrote a letter to donald trump which president trump told me he still has. richard nixon was living in new jersey. they started going out and had dinners together. >> how interesting. do they have similar personalities because i've heard that mentioned here with our other historian. >> both were anti-elite. they could not stand the establishment. they both carried a chip on their shoulders about these ivy league guys. i went to wharton. he was never accepted in new york society. he was seen as a boroughs guy, not in with the establishment. the differences of donald trump is -- nixon was politically incorrect on tapes. but in the public almost stiff. donald trump has taken political correctness and turned it upside-down. he love being politically incorrect. >> he does take pride. >> tweets are about political incorrectness and