to talk about this i'm joined by phil mudd cnn counterterrorism analyst. welcome, phil. the fbi was able to stop this 18-year-old minnesota kid because he did something really stupid. >> we like the stupid ones. the problem in this case is not the ones you stopped. it's the volume we're seeing which when i was in the business in 2001 2005 2010. we would have five on the plate. 15 on the plate. you're talking about hundreds going going. when you deal with that volume and i see one guy taken down in a case like this i look at that and say what about the hundred we're missing. you can't keep track of that volume in my world. >> let's talk about what's happening in canada along those lines. four teenagers fly off to turkey to join isis. three young women. three teenagers went to that community college where that professor was talking about it. that's a strange twist to the story. >> i take it the reverse. there are characteristics of this case that are almost emblematic of what we see in the age of sort of homegrown terror. the first is the age of some of these girls. 15 yea

want to bring in phil mudd former counterterrorism official. erin brings up good points here. one thing we saw was the new secretary of defense talking about an operation that hasn't happened yet. it's going for happen in the spring. which to me is pretty unusual. give me your thoughts first of all as somebody in the intelligence community whether or not that's a good idea and what was behind that. >> look it's unusual but in my mind it's not unprecedented and it's not surprising. everybody in iraq, maybe not the united states but everybody in iraq knew what was going to happen here. the hard core presence of isis is in western and northwestern iraq. it also happens to be the location of the second largest city in iraq that is mosul. to say that eventually iraqi forces backed by the americans and others will go on offensive to retake the city to my mind not a big surprise. surprisingly suzanne, i do think there's an opportunity here. that is having watched terrorist guys for 25 years, i think there's a lot of whom might say wow there's going to be a big battle coming on. we th

. >> i want to bring in phil mudd right now, our counterterrorism analyst and former cia member himself, the question i have is that the fbi has actually said the words, we are losing the online war against isis. do you believe that to be true because it seems hard to believe when the internet flows two different ways. they may be trying to get in but you can also contact them via the internet. >> sure, there is. but this is not just 10 or 50 people. you're talking about thousands of people. i don't care how many investigators you have, you can't stay on top of thousands of people, particularly when you understand that they're practicing their free speech rights. it's okay to be radical in the united states, and even if it weren't, you can't follow that many people simultaneously. >> the u.s. administration has said before it is putting a huge force behind a counter-propaganda campaign. where does that stand? what's happening? >> the u.s. government is making an effort here. but let's have one simple proposition, how is it that people who are regarded as the enemies of isis have legitim

. >>> now let's turn to analyst phil mudd. he spent years at the cia working on counterterrorism and he's been following all of this closely. phil, what do you make of the breaking news that there was apparently a rescue attempt made on kayla mueller? >> one of the things we have to think about, michael, is you're talking about breaking news from last summer. there's ban lot that's happened since last summer. obviously, we know what happened to journalist through the fall and we know what happened over the last week or so when isis killed that jordanian pilot. i think what's happening now six months later is isis is looking at all the news since ta raid last summer. it's starting to say a week or two ago that they made a mistake, they're now trying to figure out how to change the dynamic in the public conversation by getting away from the news coverage of that jordanian pilot and inserting this woman's name, trying to claim that the jordanians now are responsible for her death. >> you think this is a propaganda effort to deflec

. >> phil mudd, thank you. >>> the measles outbreak. why some parents the signs.itney houston, 20-year-old daughter found unresponsive face down in a bath down. what we now know about bobbi kristina brown's condition and her life on social media coming up. ght now? i have $40 $21. could something that small make an impact on something as big as your retirement? i don't think so. well if you start putting that towards your retirement every week and let it grow over time, for twenty to thirty years that retirement challenge might not seem so big after all. ♪ ♪ what does an apron have to do with car insurance? an apron is hard work. an apron is pride in what you do. an apron is not quitting until you've made something a little better. what does an apron have to do with car insurance? for us, everything. meet the world's newest energy superpower. surprised? in fact, america is now the world's number one natural gas producer... and we could soon become number one in oil. because hydraulic fracturing technology is safely recovering lots more oil and natural gas. support

terror analyst paul cruickshank, who is in studio here in new york and cnn counterterrorism analyst phil muddo check in with you on these numbers. 58% of the american people say the war against isis has gone poorly and while 50% still oppose boots on the ground to fight isis 47% which is a number that's increased from 40%, now support it. the country's basically split on whether or not the u.s. should send troops on the ground to fight isis. what's your take? are the american people right that the war against isis is going poorly and what do you think about sending troops on the ground? >> boy, i hate to say this on national news but i think the american people are dead wrong on this. that is because we don't understand from a western optic what's going on throughout the middle east. if you look at the transition after the arab spring what happens from transition to power brokers like gadhafi or like mubarak in egypt is you get a power vacuum. the transition to democracy means people start to say if i don't win the election i'm going to create my own militia or start staging terror attacks to

phil mudd back with us now.tionally now is that these alleged gunmen and still unclear how many may have taken off in a vehicle. their whereabouts unknown. how will this investigation be unraveled? >> well you've given me one statistic, one fact i think is hugely significant and that is if it is true there is more than one gunman in my mind as a former professional in this business that changes the game substantially. when you have only one individual we call a lone wolf the chance that person is emotionally unbalanced that the motivation is as much something that went wrong in that person's mind as it is some sort of political motivation like a cartoon of the prophet mohammed is pretty high when you start getting more than one coconspirator to my mind you get into a more organized conspiracy and likelihood that it's just related to emotional instability is lower. you have to look in this case as a second critical fact and there's a parallel i thoing paris. in my experience when somebody takes the step emotional

. >> joining me now, former cia counterterrorism official phil mudd. thanks for being here.ihadi john apparently had no social media footprint. even these new four canadian teenagers that are missing, doesn't seem to be any trace of them online either. what do you make of this? >> this is unusual for someone like jihadi john. first, he's involved in trying to recruit people be a face of the organization you would think he'd be out there trying to present himself. but there is something behind the curtain here ana. and that is he may not be on social media, but in the 21st century, think of everything you do during the daytime. you e-mail you text you phone, you go to an atm. whether he's got a digital trail on social media, he's got a digital life elsewhere, at least his life in london that >> do you think that is indeed happening, we just don't know about it? >> heck yes. if you're going to go through an investigation like this there are classics to find out who you are. if you are the center of an investigation, i don't want to suggest you're under investigation now, but i

let's go to cnn counter terrorism analyst phil mudd former cia counter terrorism official.also with us robert mcfadden, former special agent in charge for the naval criminal investigative service. let me start with you. how serious a threat do you think these guys were? >> from what we know right now, very serious. well done by the fbi, jttf and all their partners. it sounded like they were all over these three and their cell. you have human sources or confidential informants electronic means, tapping into the internet so very well done. but you know jake the thing that happens right now, while the high fives are going on about taking this cell down the intelligence part of it is going on full speed ahead. that's paramount, we talked about this in the lead-in to the segment, about how important it is to find out how broad or not this cell is. so that work continues as we speak. >> phil i don't want to make light of this case. obviously we all take it seriously. but if you read the court documents, at least one or two of them don't seem like the sharpest tools in the shed. m

. >> phil mudd for days now i was saying if they killed this pilot, jordan will respond in a brutal wayt two targets. first, the king is not just the head of the courtntry. he's responsible for the security of his people. you're going to be seeing something over the next few days about isis military installations. for example, the military presence or paramilitary presence of isis in syria. the background question though is who is responsible at the leadership level for the killing, the murder of this innocent airman and that question is going to take months to resolve to get enough target specificity to go after the people who did this act. >> this is a critical moment marwan >> this is a critical moment for jordan right now. >> i totally agree with phil. jordan has to have a strong response to satisfy people. at this stage -- >> i'm sure jordan and the united states will be on the united states given the close alliance. >>> stand by. an escalating war and death toll in another part of the world. we'll talk about the crisis in ukraine and the u.s. response. becoming more dangerous by t

i want phil mudd to weigh in on this issue of poverty that creates opportunities for terror. >> i completelywhen we looked at the originators of 9/11 a lot came from the middle class. i think there are issues in the middle east that contribute to violence, that relate to things like access to education and jobs. i do not think that's the defining characteristic for a generation of people who are persuaded that murder is an acceptable way to get your political message across. we can't confuse these two messages. you can't commit murder at the same time it's perfectly appropriate to have a conversation that says how do you create job opportunities in places like nigeria, which is a place that has a lot of islamic -- >> stand by. mr. chairman stand by as well. we are getting new information coming in on the education, the background of bag da de, the leader of isis. might be surprised at his education. much more coming up right after this. ring ring! progresso! i can't believe i'm eating bacon and rich creamy cheese before my sister's wedding well it's only 100 calories, so you'll be ready for

phil mudd thank you so much.stions about the shooting of a mexican national by police in washington state. lawyers for the victim's family say police shot the man in the back. police insisting that is not the case. cnn's rosa flores joining me now from new york. rosa. >> reporter: hey, fred we have a copy of the autopsy excerpt that the family attorney says proves that this man was indeed shot in the back. i'll take you through the dramatic details, next. what's that thing? i moved our old security system out here to see if it could monitor the front yard. why don't you switch to xfinity home? i get live video monitoring and 24/7 professional monitoring that i can arm and disarm from anywhere. hear ye! the awkward teenage one has arrived!!!! don't be old fashioned. xfinity customers add xfinity home for $29.95 a month for 12 months. plus for a limited time, get a free security camera call 1800 xfinity or visit comcast.com/xfinityhome. >>> an investigation is under way in washington state, and to the shooting of a

joining us peter bergen philip mudd general mark hertling and robert baer. philoffensive, the operational plans, if you will how many troops will be involved when they will go in? is there some reason to do this? it's surprising. >> i'm not surprised at all. i can't figure out what this debate is. i don't have much hair left but what i have i'm pulling out. the second largest city in iraq is in the isis heartland, the military -- iraqi military was surprised last summer. isis no longer has the opportunity of surprise. the iraqi military has air power superiority provided by the united states superior intelligence superior manpower. we're saying it's a surprise they are going to retake mosul? i don't get why we're thinking this is a huge surprise. this has been in debate for months. i think as you are suggesting there might be an advantage in talking about this target. i think the isis guys believe they are or daned by god to success. a lot of them untrained recruits might show up in a place like mosul to say, you want to fight, bring it on we will show up we will

. >> phil mudd this guy was being sought after, he was operating out of greece.m greece presumably to turkey then across the border into syria. how does this happen despite an international manhunt? >> look i don't think this is a big surprise. you are talking about an isis organization that has years of experience in smuggling people across the border. greece is right across from turkey across from syria. i suspect he had his plan organized and that isis knew which border points were vulnerable. the real question is not whether he made it across the border so quickly, it's what his life expectancy is now that he's in syria. in my experience something like this in a war zone and who is the target of western security forces including the cia where i served, life expeckkctancyexpectancy one to five years. >> we will see. how dangerous could he be if he's operating from inside syria? >> well he certainly has some information on the plot wolf. i want to go back if i can, and agree with phil. it has only been recently that turkey put up ban from entry. it started in d

isis existed, something maajid nawaz was in and now joining us with counterterrorism official phil phillip mudd. they've known for a while and keep it on the down low. now it's out there, does it that make easier or harder to capture him? >> i don't think capture is likely. first, get the intelligence not only where he is today but where he is tomorrow and second take the risk of putting somebody -- i suspect over time he will be identified and killed either by u.s. forces a syrian striker among extremist groups. i can't imagine despite what they say bringing back for justice he's going to come out of there. >> maajid it's interesting. we've talked about and a lot of people focused in the past about radicalization and other things that lead to it, poverty, lack of opportunities, sense of humiliation. he wasn't poor. he went to college, had a degree in computers. it seems like there's no boundaries anymore for somebody who actually may be attracted to this stuff. >> well yes, anderson. i've written a piece for one of the national newspapers "the guardian" comparing it to racism. whether educated

global affairs analyst retired lieutenant colonel james reese and cnn counter terrorism analyst phil muddth you. the tipping point is the big phrase today. do you think this could be that and why? >> i would not say it's a tipping point, but it's a critical moment for isis where they're indicating whether they can transition from a terror group to a group that can govern the territory that they took so quickly starting in the summer. look here's the point, chris. terror groups have a problem making a major transition from using intimidation to providing services like governance education, medical supplies. my take away from this is that isis is not learning that it has to make that transition. it's not learning that you can't just use intimidation to subjugate people and to govern territory. my take away bottom line is that isis will be the architects of their own demise because like the terror groups that went before them they can't get over the hump of trying to learn how to govern. all they can do is to figure out how to kill people. >> phil you're giving a nod to the reality that isis

we have phil mudd analyst and counterterrorism official.nal security member under presidents bush and clinton. also the author of going to tehran. mr. mudd let's start with these girls. young angry men this affected uneducated. we get it. young women super educated. listen to what the sister of one of these girls has to say in describing them and what's being didn't to the family? >> we convince such young girls at that age are so vulnerable and so it's just wrong. it's evil an evil thing to do. to break up an entire family. >> the cost is obvious. what is the cell that would work on a sophisticated educated young woman. >> let's start with the target here and i use that word advisedly, the target chris, is not a young woman, a child a. 15-year-old in my world whether it's a boy or a girl is not a man or a woman. it's a child vulnerable to that message. that message is not about joining isis. it's about an impressionable young person. why don't you come to a world where you can live to an islamic ideal. we are not about murdering people beh

and counterterrorism official phillip mudd. phil they said they had an idea where she was. you can understand their desire to have an operation take place as quickly as possible. do you think there was too much of a delay, or is kind of having a general idea where somebody is enough? >> boy, anderson you're asking me to challenge a family that has just lost a daughter. but a few months ago we had a raid attempt in yemen that resulted in the loss of hostages because the captors killed them. you have to look at the situation in my world of intelligence and look at both sides. there's a potential benefit here obviously, to rescuing the young lady who was later murdered. there's also a potential cost if those special forces officers lose their lives. the hardest thing in my world of intelligence you're not looking where that individual was yesterday, you're looking at where that individual will be tomorrow. and whether you have good enough predictive intelligence to provide assurance to that team that they're going into an environment that they can at some level control. this o

let's dig deeper with our counter counterterrorism expert peter mudd and james reese and bob baer. philborder between iraq and syria has been so ydyied up they will go after isis targets in syria and iraq. >> it shows resolve that we were uncertain about. you have the emotional response in syria. clear reason why syria is the headquarters for isis leadership serious location of the murder of the pilot. go across the border you get into a different kettle of fish. a location where the americans interest fein intervened. you are going into a sensitive area that's governed by a shia government. member jordan is a sunni state. this is a show that the jordanians are in the game maybe more than we expected. >> peter, isis propaganda they like this notion that they are fighting the united states. when jordan gets in there and fights them that's a different set of propaganda challenge for them isn't it in. >> yes and no. they regard these arab regimes as puppets of the united states. they will say the saudi king is basically a puppet of the united states. the jordanian king is. it's not a new p

cnn counterterrorism analyst and former official philip mudd, and julia kind, an official at homeland security, perfect to talk about this today. philere on the front lines of this intelligence war against terror. we now know the name of jihadi john. intelligence has known it for a while. if you're on the front lines, how bad do you want to get this guy? how important is it and how do you do it? >> i don't think he's important as an operatorment i think there are higher levels of the organization responsible for leading and managing isis. the importance here is what's happened in this, more particularly in the last five years. that is the fight on the internet and social media. he's going to become an avatar for terrorists. he's going to become a symbol especially since his name is known. operationally i think he's chump change. in terms of radicalizing people and recruiting, i think he's significant. >> the profile i find fascinating. julia, come in on this. the profile we're learning about mohammed emwazi, he's college educated, a computer programmer. he likes stylish clothing, that was in "the washington post." he's very observan

counterterrorism expert and phillip mudd is our cnn counterterrorism analyst and former cia counterterrorism official. let's talk about the news of the day and happening that egypt is doing. philnched more airstrikes in libya on isis targets. do we know what they're hitting and if they're making a dent? >> no, i don't, but i look at what they talked at from the outset and it wasn't what i would expect to see if they were expecting to succeed. they talk about revenge. they talk about a campaign that will incapacitate isis. i don't have a lot of faith that the egyptians can do a lot of damage here. i think what they're doing is striking a few targets just to prove politically back home that they're going to avenge the loss of those 21 christians. >> the egyptians say they're doing more than hitting a couple of targets. last night the foreign minister was on cnn talking to erin burnett. let me play for what he says. they go beyond airstrikes. >> and we have undertaken activities related to restricting the finances and recruitment measures of isis. this is participation of a military nature and we will continue to support the coalition and be part of it in various degrees and to v