phil rutger, we'd like to begin with you. the white house beat. why did the white house choose today, to the best of your knowledge, to launch this anti-crime initiative? >> well, brian, it was an important day for president biden to launch this initiative in part because there are indications that crime this summer could be going up in cities across the country. biden warned of that in his remarks from the white house today. and he wanted to take political advantage or at least position his administration bet ears the summer bears on. this is a politically tricky issue for democrats. it always has been for decades now, but especially in this moment because republicans on capitol hill have said that they want to try to use crime, if there's a crime wave this summer, as a campaign tool to try to defeat the democrats and take back the majority and midterm elections next year somewhat we've heard from biden and the attorney general is a suite of proposals they think can get a handle on crime, first and foremost, the gun restrictions that have been im

joining us now the washington post phil rutger, author of "i alone can fix it."n't wait for that. and dan goldman, former house impeachment inquiry majority council. let me go over the legal aspects, first. explain to us, is this all about the cfo of the trump organization and is he the one being targeted? he and the company? and secondary i'm wondering who else could be indicted. >> it is preferable to indict individuals rather than a company. first it is clear that allen weisselberg will not cooperate with the manhattan das office. they likely had multiple conversations with attorneys and said to them "he should cooperate because we're going to charge him otherwise with x, y, z. we don't know yet what that is. there has been reporting about it, but my guess is that the reporting is not fullsome and complete. because he is not cooperating i don't personally believe there is not a case to be made against donald trump. so you need a witness to testify that donald trump knew about all of the misrepresentations likely to be charged. as a back up measure, the d.a.'s

from "the washington post", senior washington correspondent and msnbc political analyst phil rutger is and it comes out july 20th. matt miller, former chief spokesman tore the doj and msnbc justice and security analyst. olivia troye is here, former top aide to former vice president mike pence, now director of the american accountability project. as promised, eddie is still here. i want to start with you, olivia. you know mike pence. mike pence was reported to me to sort of have been stunned by trump's political depravity, by the fact there was no line he wouldn't cross, by his indifference to human suffering around the pandemic. but why was he surprised that trump then turned on him around the certification on january 6th? he had seen who trump was. >> well, he certainly had seen who trump is firsthand. we lived that together for quite sometime. but i think that at the end of the day, i think when you are the vice president to this man, you're literally working down the hallway for this entire time, i think somewhere in mike pence's head he thought that they were in this together and t