i am pleased to have philip mudd back on this program. how could you ever think this is a great -- "the head game" is fine. it is the subtitle. philip: the author writes the book. the marketers do the cover. i did the title. we went back and forth. it was difficult to come up with the first title, the big thing. folks at the publishing company said, this is not going to work. back and forth six months. we need something that is going to catch the idea of how to think intellectually about complex problems. i was sitting at a bar one night, not uncommon for me, and i swear this is in minneapolis sitting at a bar, having a glass of wine. i look over and i see some guy working some girl at the bar. i looked and said, she is playing head games with him. i took out a card. the book is going to be called head games. everybody is going to understand what a head game is. had we figure out how to make a dent -- how do we figure out how to make that an acronym? charlie: your life has been about analysis. it really has. philip: i started as an analyst

katty: for more on the increasingly complicated picture in yemen i spoke with philip mudd, formally the director of the cia counterterrorism center. now the author of the new book "the head game." what will it take to bring stability to yemen even two and a half weeks of airstrikes? guest: there are a couple of questions we need to answer. will they stop the movement toward the al qaeda, isis area? that's a fundamentally different question, i think and i think this question is getting confused about whether we can restore stability and return the president to power. that, i think, is going to take boots on the ground. i do not think you can do that without air power. there is the first step to stop the onslaught, and there is a second step, maybe u.n.-backed and how do you put people back in there to restore stability in the capital katty:. -- in the capital. katty: the involvement of world powers, what effect is that having? guest: you have the sunnis on one side in iraq, in syria, in yemen and you have the shia on the other. they are backed by iran, the leadership in baghdad backed by

i said, my name is philip mudd i'm a church chump change mid-level officer.a@i level, do you,;2ju what that meant for a c.i.a. officer?çó i said, here's my perspective. i don't know what he thought, but it was a changing moment for me. >> rose: gave you confidence that he wanted to know your opinion. >> that he cared.c >> rose: that my opinion matters and i want to make sure my opinion is as informed as it possibly can be. >> exactly. i do not want to stumble so i better bring my game and plus there are a bunch of people around the table saying why is the director asking that idiot? >> rose: bottom line, the head game is you want people to look at the end game and say what is the question we wantçó here. >> that's right. people look at the data every morning and say especially in this data world -- for example, why don't you, ifñr you're moving to a city get 1,000 real estateÑiçó ads and sort through them and say, let me get a sense of the city. don't do that. that's infusht. the first conversation is how do i have a quality of life experience in this city th

philip mudd is here to map it all out for us.to understand the reach of iran. >> let's look at where we have gone over the past 30, 35 years. if you are in the center of the sunni universe you are in saudi arabia in the center of the map. in 1979 we had the revolution in iran. you get iranian clerical leadership take over. they extend influence into syria, lebanon. left fast forward. you have the revolution supported by the american military. you have not a sunni, you have shia leadership. you go into yemen, the story of today has shia supported by iran taking over the capital of yemen. if you look at this from saudi arabia also with a large shia presence in the eastern province you can see what the world looks like in the midst of the nuclear negotiations. the world is starting to look more and more shia. this is an adversary that has been for centuries. they are nervous. they think that it's enclosing them with shia influences going to get a nuclear weapon. you can see why they're concerned. >> this is why you see saudi arabia

joining me fox news military analyst and author of "the head game" former director of the cia, philip muddery specifically they said today. jen psaki said on "fox this morning" we're not sure if they confront them. we're sending this fleet of ships there, including the uss roosevelt. now the iranians responded by sending more ships themselves. i think the iranianian iranians have no fear of fighting in yemen. am i wrong? >> yeah. i don't think so. here's why. a woman speaking for the defense department isn't the department of defense. we got rules of engagement. but have been good to bad for 14 years. i don't think we got warships out there to let them pass into yemen. yemen is a failed state. iran has turned out to be a super power in the middle east. we can't allow this. but at the same time that that ship is there to allegedly block access to yemen, we're given 10 to $50 billion back to iran. it's a terrorist nation for a new deal we would not, i don't believe we will put navy guys in harm's way in the middle without aggressive rules of engagement. they won't allow those iranian ships t

bob baer peter bergen philip mudd.ng dash cam video of a police car running into a suspect. and get this it may have saved the man's life. cnn's brian todd is here to show us this new video. we need to warn our viewers it's disturbing isn't it brian? >> indeed it wolf. this is the suspect in question. this is mario valenzia. this is incredible dash cam video just released from the marana police department near tucson. this information comes to us from affiliate kold. that station says police were following an armed suspect on foot. this is back on february 19th we should say this. is a man named mario valencia who police say had stolen a rifle from a war mart and fired a shot as he was walking. we pick it up as an officer in one police cruiser is slowly following this suspect, giving information to his dispatchers. then you see another cruiser speed around this officer and barrel into this man. we have to warn viewers, as wolf mentioned, this video is graphic and could be disturbing to one. [ gunshot ] >> okay never mi

philip mudd was deputy director of the cia's counterterrorism center. he's now a cnn counterterrorism analyst and he's the author of a new book, "the head game." and emma sky arrived in iraq in 2003 and finally left in 2010. her last role was as political adviser to ray odierno when he was the commanding general of u.s. and allied forces there. she is the author of a new book about her experiences in that country, "the unraveling: high hopes and missed opportunities in iraq." so phil first talk about this strike and about the hostages. we forget that al qaeda is still around. what did you make of this operation? >> well, tragic, but inevitable. what you have here is what we call a signature strike. that is, ten years ago you might have looked at a specific individual and used a drone to strike that individual. there is a transition to say if we see a pattern of activity where we think there are al qaeda fighters in a compound, you can surveil that compound for potentially in this case several hundred hours, determine if there are women or children prese

philip mudd is a former fbi agent and author of the book "the head game."e said the trip to syria made mohamud more of a threat than the home grown terrorist. >> the concern you have to have is not only has he traveled overseas but what training might they have received overseas. >> reporter: mohamud was arrested last february on state charges and held on a million-dollar bail so he could not flee the country. >> intelligence game is halfway through here.that allowed us to find him and maybe map his network. there's a second path we've got to look at. does he tell you something that gives you clues that you weren't aware of before. >> mohamud is scheduled to appear in court this morning in columbus, ohio. he will plead not guilty. if kochb victoried he faces a maximum of 3 years in prison. >> thank you. >>> the man who flew a gyrocopter onto the capitol hill lawn is out on bonds but it could put him in prison for four years. jeff pegues is on capitol hill with new information on how the pilot literally flew under the radar. good morning. >> reporter: good m

mudd. also the author of "the head game." philipas it relates to terrorism? >> terrorism is the same problem you face in everyday life. there's a ton of data coming in data from human sources, communications. same thing you have when you buy a house, a ton of data. >> you say the data is no good. >> don't get to -- >> don't do it that way. >> don't start with the data. start with what question you're trying to answer. if you've got 25,000 people going to fight with isis that's piece of data. the question isn't whether they represent a threat the question is what are those 25,000 people mean for security in new york city? very different question. start with the question not the data. >> you're saying -- you've got the data 25,000 people in syria and iraq but you're a lot more worried about the 12 people that come back to new york city. >> that's right. the question you've got to start with is not whether al qaeda is proving to be a huge magnet for foreign fighters from europe and united states. the question is whether that means the

. >> reporter: philip mudd is a former fbi agent and author of the book "the head game." he says the trip to syria made mohammed more of a threat than the typical homegrown terrorist. >> the concern you have to have in this case is not only that somebody came home again after traveling overseas to fight but what kind of sophistication or training might people like this have received overseas. >> reporter: mohammed was arrested last february on state charges in ohio and held on a million dollars bail so he could not flee the country while the justice department prepared federal charges against him. >> the intelligence game is halfway through. that's the game that allowed us to find him and map his network. there's a second path we have to look at. does he tell you something that gives you clues you weren't aware of before? >> mohammed is scheduled to appear in court this morning in columbus, ho hoh, and his attorney says he will plead not guilty. if convicted, mohammed faces a maximum sentence of 38 years in prison. z vase nita? >> david, thank you. >>> the man who flew a

let's get more with the cnn intelligence and security expert bob baer and mark hertling and philip muddwhite house system, not necessarily getting classified information but sensitive information? >> i would say zero shock. look spying is the oldest profession on the planet. 25 years ago you may be resenting telephones and then going after electrons. the surprise would be if the russians made no effort and had no success penetrating unclassified or not very classified systems at state and the white house. this is what spies do it's the same thing. >> bob bare russia was able to hack into the state department and white house computers. what other countries are capable of doing the same thing? >> well, there's a lot of them. you can do this privately as well. we are all vulnerable on our cell phones and e-mail systems. i would imagine the chinese are into a lot of places they shouldn't be. the french could. you know south africans it doesn't matter. anybody that has the money to put towards it can get into the communication system and washington is notoriously slack of keeping information

fran townsend peter bergen general mark hertling and philip mudd.nt brand new book just coming out this week entitled "the head game." there you see the cover. phil let's talk about the two british teens, a 14-year-old and a 16-year-old presumably wanting to go support -- fight for isis. what's causing these teens to join a terror group allegedly like this? >> i think naivete. it's like we are in the third stage of the war. we started with the core of al qaeda. the guys who are the architects of 9/11. we move to the home growns starting in 2007, 2008. people not al qaeda members, but people who are emotionally driven to go to iraq. now we have naive 14-year-olds that have been told, there's a place i can go. the brits have said -- they have more cases than we do -- that they will not charge people this young. there's an interesting question for the white house and the department of justice. if you get a 14-year-old, my judgment is the department of justice should come out saying those individuals would not be charged, not just because we are soft an

. >>> let's bring in our military analyst, mark hertling philip mudd and robert baer.th this case? what's your reaction when you hear what's going on? specifically will the u.s. be able to get good information from this guy? >> i remember this case. i sat at the table at the fbi when he disappeared. we sat back and said what do we have on our hand snz will he come back to u.s. soil and commit an attack? he became with a we call a facilitator in pakistan. between the al qaeda leadership and also operatives from places like the united states or canada. you asked will he provide intelligence? he already has. he has been in custody for a while. as soon as people like this get out of that protective bubble among their friends, they will get nervous. we don't need to know only immediate information like where is the next attack. you want to know who have you communicated with in the united states? how do you communicate? how do you facilitate travel? this guy say lotis a lottery ticket. >> he has a lawyer. who is to say he will cooperate? he could remain silent. >> he could

let's bring in philip mudd author of the new book "the head game." and ross mr.ard steen, ross i would like to start with this book gentleman, one it was full of pictures some of the actual writing in here deals with somalia, mr. mu dd it said on page 36 we didn't realize until the al shabab extremist infection in american cities spread well beyond fundraising. in 2008 they drove an explosives packed vehicle into a building in somalia. >> i think the book is starting with the data and data overload it's starting with the question t. data we had then had to do with fund raising for the somali terrorists a group we call al shabab. if we see this extent of fundraising, what is the likelihood there is recruiting in american cities. i fault myself for this we missed a separate stream of recruiters. they were separate from the fund raisers. all of a sudden parents started coming in many city particularly minneapolis, saying where's my kid? that kid went over to fight with al shabab. >> minneapolis because there is a somali population there. people are unaware, but ther

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