. >> rose: and continue with phillip rucker of the "the washington post." >> mike pence is said to have been encouraging of the romney possibility, same with reince priebus. both have relationships with romney and fit in with the party establishment and other advisors in the circle especially kellyanne conway who have been hostile to the idea of romney and i think that's why tillerson emerged. >> rose: we conclude with nancy gibbs, editor of "time" magazine, on the selection of donald trump as the publication's "person of the year." >> what's remarkable about donald trump that we have not seen before is somebody who comes in and defies all expectation, breaks all the rules, shatters every norm and convention for how you run for president. >> rose: john mccain, michael isikoff, david sanger, major garrett, phillip rucker and nancy gibbs, when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city

it was a great read, a fascinating read, you and phillip rucker writing this.talked about a lot of his appointees have a certain look. how do you mean? >> well, as he's trying to figure out mo who can do the job, it helps in donald trump's book if the candidate actually looks the part and don't forget one of his knocks on hillary clinton during the campaign was that she didn't have a presidential look and that people would want that look. so not only in his own comments, but in -- people around him both on the record and on background say that if somebody has the look that he imagines in the particular role that he is casting, it gives them a real leg up which helps explain why for instance secretary of state came down to mitt romney and rex tillerson, both of whom have this sort of full head of hair corporate buttoned up bearing. people who can sort of walk into a room and kind of own it. >> i'm listening to you and i want to get to john bolton in just a second and the mustache. but i can hear in my head folks from the other side saying hang on a second, you l

>> andrea mitchell was one of the moderators and phillip rucker was also there delivering blow by blow account this morning in the post. they both join us now. first the history and why this was such a surprising turn this exchange between these two? >> well, for 44 years, tamron, this has been an academic exercise with a few rare moments 1988 when gloating over michael dukkha kus was defeated in that year and he was the former governor of massachusetts and harvard was his home turf, there was tension. that said, even in 2000, people say, and i wasn't there that year, during bush v gore when there was no decision yet over who was the president of the united states. from wasn't the tension we saw last night. you could cut it with a knife. they were going at each other and you had a less than gracious team trump gloating, if you will, and a somewhat defensive team clinton trying to protect hillary clinton from the criticisms. and protecting themselves frankly from criticisms that they had made mistakes and calculations about battleground states. they very angry about jim comey, they beli