not, um, it's not simply like an issue, she didn't want -- this is what's so fascinating about phyllis schlafly. she didn't want a shrinking violate who was just going to -- violet who was going to make the man his meal, she learned. and, again, not in an insincere way. she learned something from the women's movement about the power that women actually have and the poe ten the si of it. -- potency of it. she happened to think it adhere inside a very different kind of relationship to men than feminists do. .. if a. >> she is just as much a product of the feminist movement as much as their a formidable. and that is the paradox that is a fascinating element that often times it is a product of the very movement that is supposed. >> host: i want to end as we started with your beginning and to end with your conclusion you say modern conservatism came on with the 20th century to defeat the great social movement of the left. as far as the eye can see it has done so and can now leave. do you believe conservatism is an organ that goes the way of the dodo bird? >> definitely not. it is it extraordinarily

very interesting to me that the catholic bishops did not support the mississippi in fact,xd phyllis schlafly'sorado. but when it comes up in other places, when it's proposed, it's very often couched in the way that mike huckabee couched it, in that life begins at conception. conception is a lot more fuzzy term.xd i looked that up on a medical dictionary online, and on the same website, i saw one definition that said conception is fertilization of an egg, and on the very same website it said, well, conception is implantation on the uterine wall. and hormonal birth control workk to prevent implantation. so on the second definition, there is no conception.çó on the first definition there would be conception. and i think that there's this debate going on within the right wing, not only about what conception means. i think there is that debate.i] and it's a religious and philosophical debate. but i think there's also a wing about what is the best way, frankly, to raise money on this issue. and to march in a very solid and predictable way towards >> well, we have seen, i think -- we have seen sort

it's -- i was fascinated to read you wrote about phyllis schlafly who's a colleague and someone i'm really honored to have worked with. >> guest: really? >> host: yeah. >> guest: oh, wow. >> host: she characterized the equal rights amendment as a takeaway of rights which is what you discuss, and you write that she was obviously using the language of rights in a way that was opposed to the aims of the feminist movement. i don't think she'd disagree. she was using rights to put women back into the homes, to keep them as wives and mothers. i know, in fact, she would disagree because i asked her about this. my opinion of your analysis is one thing, but i wanted to go the source, so i did. i talked to phyllis yesterday. and i asked her what she thought of this, and here's what she said. i will try not to use tone. does he think that liberals are the only ones permitted to talk about rights? conservatives have rights, too, and want to defend them. the era has absolutely no benefit to women. i testified in 41 state legislative hearings, and the er as were never able to show a single benefit that

and i tell you what first tipped me off was katherine mcqueen in was in a debate with phyllis schlafly and she said, look at yourself. you are a beautiful, extraordinarily accomplished woman. both in your home, you have six kids, i think she had, raise add beautiful family. more importantly, politically, you -- and every historian agrees with this. you created the modern republican party. you transformed it. if we lived in the kind of world i want -- this is cable rein speaking -- you would be in the cabinet of the reagan administration. you would have gotten the real power you deserved. >> i think she would argue that she had a higher power and that was a choice -- >> historians might disagree with that. but here's the point. so, my point is not that -- it's that she is as much a product of the feminist moment as she is a formidable opponent, and that's in some ways what -- i think that's the kind of paradox and the fascinating element of conservativism is all about. it's often times a product of the very movement that it opposes. >> i want to end as we started, with your -- we began

i was fascinated to read, you wrote about phyllis schlafly who is a colleague and an honor to work with her. she characterized the equal rights movement as a take away if women's rights in the right issue is obviously using the language of rights in a way that was supposed to be aimed at the feminist movement. i don't think she disagrees. she was using rights to put women back into the home to keep them as wives and mothers. i know in fact she wouldn't agree because i asked her about this. my opinion of your analysis is one thing but i wanted to go to phyllis and talk to her yesterday. i asked her what she thought of this and here's what she said. i will try not to use tone. does he think that liberals are the only ones permitted to talk about rights? conservatives have rights too and want to defend them. the era has absolutely no benefit to women. i testified in 41 state legislative hearings and they were never able to show a single benefit that women would get from the era and further to import rice the era would take away from women making the draft, my daughter thought that was a '9

party grew distant from her colleague says she provided equal rights amendment and contested phyllis schlafly's interest in republican women. this is a little under an hour. >> good evening. my name is bill ballenger. i'm editor of the newsletter inside michigan politics. i am a charter member i believe of the michigan political history society. this august group assembled here this evening, which has been the repository for so many great speakers over the past few years. tonight we are really lucky. we have a native daughter of michigan, born and brought up in my hometown, flint, michigan, home of the flintstones. [laughter] she was born in the old women's hospital by former lieutenant governor jim berkley and like me. women's hospitals don't exist anymore, but sara went to school part of her youth at bentley school, and then unfortunately, her father who worked for gm was transferred several times and places to rochester new york and to the bloomfield hills area but sara's older sister sue fitzgerald is a graduate of flint central high school, so there's a big michigan connection there. the b

aclu and civil libertarians in making these complaints include gunners' rights organization, phyllis schlafly's forum, americans for tax reform, the american conservative union to name just a few all have concurred that the problem with these dragnet surveillance techniques is that they give government unchecked power to invade our privacy to, among other things, intercept international telephone communications, e-mail commune caigs by american citizens without any suspicion of any wrongdoing whatsoever. to be very precise, the legal standard now simply demands that very casually and loosely that there be some basis for believing or suspecting that the intercepted communication might be relevant to an ongoing investigation. the role of the courts, even the supersecret foreign intelligence surveillance court, has vanished to the disappearing point. we now know thanks to one revision that was made to the patriot act in one of it reauthorizations the inspector general of the justice department has to do surveys and reports on how these new powers have been used in report after report the inspector